I think the whole thing is really up to interpretation,To me the whole thing didnt seem plausable from the start and not a lot of the episode makes any sense...but yeh
Wow, Kirsten Beyer made VOY not suck!
- Thread starter DeafPoet
- Start date
I don't mind the episode myself, but I wouldn't call it one of the best. Plenty of episodes of the various series don't make much sense, so I don't hold that against it. 
Also, I don't mind Neelix.
Also, I don't mind Neelix.
Yes, I did watch the show. I have seasons 1-3 on DVD and have re-watched them several times. In fact, I will re-watch "Caretaker" this evening.
Voyager's first three seasons were magnificent!
Not to mention the Voyager seasons 1-3 books which are excellent!
CaptCalhoun, having reviewed some of his posts in another thread, I now recognize the futility of demonstrating the various awesomely awesome suckage levels of Voyager throughout all seven seasons. I'll just let him sit in his puddle of wrongness.
Don't get me wrong, folks...there were some awesome episodes of Voyager. Some. Just as, at various times, episodes of TOS, TNG, DS9 and ENT sucked. But having watched about 98% of Voyager episodes, I'd have to say that there were more that sucked than those that didn't.
Especially in the first three seasons. Just sayin'.
Yes, I did watch the show. I have seasons 1-3 on DVD and have re-watched them several times. In fact, I will re-watch "Caretaker" this evening.
Voyager's first three seasons were magnificent!
Not to mention the Voyager seasons 1-3 books which are excellent!
CaptCalhoun, having reviewed some of his posts in another thread, I now recognize the futility of demonstrating the various awesomely awesome suckage levels of Voyager throughout all seven seasons. I'll just let him sit in his puddle of wrongness.
Don't get me wrong, folks...there were some awesome episodes of Voyager. Some. Just as, at various times, episodes of TOS, TNG, DS9 and ENT sucked. But having watched about 98% of Voyager episodes, I'd have to say that there were more that sucked than those that didn't.
Especially in the first three seasons. Just sayin'.
I disagree. I really like Voyager's seasons 1-3 and the magnificent books covering that era.
Nothing wrong with that, I hope.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
CaptCalhoun, having reviewed some of his posts in another thread, I now recognize the futility of demonstrating the various awesomely awesome suckage levels of Voyager throughout all seven seasons. I'll just let him sit in his puddle of wrongness.
Don't get me wrong, folks...there were some awesome episodes of Voyager. Some. Just as, at various times, episodes of TOS, TNG, DS9 and ENT sucked. But having watched about 98% of Voyager episodes, I'd have to say that there were more that sucked than those that didn't.
Especially in the first three seasons. Just sayin'.
I disagree. I really like Voyager's seasons 1-3 and the magnificent books covering that era.
Nothing wrong with that, I hope.
Just put it in you sig and post something new for a change.
Really? I thought Voyager's first three seasons were its best, because they were the ones that benefitted from the involvement of Michael Piller, the franchise's best writer. They certainly had their weaknesses, but they had the strongest character writing, since that was Piller's greatest priority as a writer and showrunner.
Yeah, I honestly thought almost all of Voyager was pretty bad, but I also disagree that Piller was the best writer. He was okay with the character stuff, but in my opinion, the Voyager characters were so intensely dull from the word "go" that I don't think any amount of character work could have helped them. Now, a part of that is the casting and I don't know how much Piller was involved in the actual creation of these characters, so I can't really speak to that, but not a one of them really interested me at all. Paris had the most potential, because he was supposed to be this Han Solo rogue type, but he ended up being just as dull and lifeless as the rest of them. By episode 3, everyone had just fit into the Starfleet lifestyle mode that we had seen all through TNG that I didn't care any more.
^Well, I'll just point out that Piller also created the DS9 characters (in collaboration with Rick Berman, while his work on VGR was in collaboration with Berman and Jeri Taylor). And Piller wrote "Emissary," the single best Trek pilot ever.
I can agree with that last bit there. Emissary was, hands down, the best pilot.
Like I said, his character work was okay, but I never thought it was great. I think where the DS9 characters really started to shine in season 3 when Behr and Moore started heading things up.
Like I said, his character work was okay, but I never thought it was great. I think where the DS9 characters really started to shine in season 3 when Behr and Moore started heading things up.
What, nobody's come along yet to snarkily point out that all the episodes were just made up?
Damn, this board has really gone downhill recently...
I totally agree with this and this is what made Deep Space Nine shine away from the rest. Ira Steven Behr was i think by far the best Trek writer and Enterprise would have benifited a lot if he was in that writing staff. It also helped huge amounts that Rick Berman and co left the rains with Ira and his staff while they concentrated on Voyager. I also think Ira needs high praise for developing Ron Moore as a writer. His experience on DS9 was clearly shown on Battlestar Galactica and he has said many times that DS9 was BSG dad
DS9 was a departure from trek and what the franchise needed. It could not carry on bodly going were no man has gone before on a different ship and a different crew, which ultimatly was Voyagers downfall (except they were travelling backwards) The franchise needed to carry on changing and expanding, and in a way Voyager took it backwards.
Ha ha! Touche!
Let's not forget that Moore also credits Piller as someone from whom he learnt a great deal.I also think Ira needs high praise for developing Ron Moore as a writer. His experience on DS9 was clearly shown on Battlestar Galactica and he has said many times that DS9 was BSG dad
[/QUOTE]
Let's not forget that Moore also credits Piller as someone from whom he learnt a great deal.[/QUOTE]
oo most defently, and piller was a great great writer, I dont honestly think he was suited to DS9, however the franchise greatly missed him when he died
Let's not forget that Moore also credits Piller as someone from whom he learnt a great deal.[/QUOTE]
oo most defently, and piller was a great great writer, I dont honestly think he was suited to DS9, however the franchise greatly missed him when he died
I've gotta say that I'm absolutely flabbergasted, that in talking about the best and worst of Voyager not one person has yet mentioned "Threshold" 
Also, I don't think Voyager had more bad episodes than good ones. It certainly had its bad ones and it had its good ones, but the bad didn't outnumber the good IMO. In fact (as with each show) the average episodes are the ones that are most plentiful.
Ya know, thinking back, I think TNG had more bad episodes than good ones.
Also, I don't think Voyager had more bad episodes than good ones. It certainly had its bad ones and it had its good ones, but the bad didn't outnumber the good IMO. In fact (as with each show) the average episodes are the ones that are most plentiful.
Ya know, thinking back, I think TNG had more bad episodes than good ones.
I've gotta say that I'm absolutely flabbergasted, that in talking about the best and worst of Voyager not one person has yet mentioned "Threshold"
Also, I don't think Voyager had more bad episodes than good ones. It certainly had its bad ones and it had its good ones, but the bad didn't outnumber the good IMO. In fact (as with each show) the average episodes are the ones that are most plentiful.
Ya know, thinking back, I think TNG had more bad episodes than good ones.
"Threshold" was a terrible episode but it wasn't the worst episode in Voyager. "Fury" was the worst episode.
As for "Threshold", it's actually funny here and there. There is no deliberate character annihilation and destruction and the best part with "Threshold" is that it can actually be waved away as some nightmare Paris had.
Compared to "Fury" and other stories with deliberate character destruction "Threshold" is actually acceptable.
Christopher said:
Bishop76 said:
Surely you jest? It was a badly acted snooze-fest."Where No Man..." is how Trek pilots are done. I'd also put "Broken Bow" (silly rub-down and all) above "Emissary".
...but then, I think BSG is the most overrated load of rubbish in sci-fi history. (*ducks*)
One of the things that makes "Emissary" special as a pilot is that it actually tells a complete story, rather than just being the beginning of one. Most pilots just set up a situation and leave it open-ended. "Emissary" did that to a degree, sure. But its core story was a drama about Ben Sisko coming to terms with the death of his wife and starting to move forward with his life again. So what was just a setup from a plot standpoint was a resolution from a character standpoint. And it's not just a resolution, it's a major transformative event in its protagonist's life, as the resolution of a movie or novel would ideally be. And that's good writing. Even a story that's part of a larger series should be able to stand on its own as a complete narrative work -- something that's increasingly forgotten in our serial-obsessed times. And "Emissary" has more completeness and closure than most pilots.
It's also a classic Star Trek story, a tale of first contact and mutual discovery between wildly different life forms, giving its protagonist the opportunity to philosophize about the human condition. And Piller conveys this in a very atypical, almost poetic way through Sisko's extended baseball metaphor, so it isn't as heavyhanded as such things often are in Trek. That scene has always been one of my favorites.
It's also a classic Star Trek story, a tale of first contact and mutual discovery between wildly different life forms, giving its protagonist the opportunity to philosophize about the human condition. And Piller conveys this in a very atypical, almost poetic way through Sisko's extended baseball metaphor, so it isn't as heavyhanded as such things often are in Trek. That scene has always been one of my favorites.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
I've gotta say that I'm absolutely flabbergasted, that in talking about the best and worst of Voyager not one person has yet mentioned "Threshold"
Also, I don't think Voyager had more bad episodes than good ones. It certainly had its bad ones and it had its good ones, but the bad didn't outnumber the good IMO. In fact (as with each show) the average episodes are the ones that are most plentiful.
Ya know, thinking back, I think TNG had more bad episodes than good ones.
"Threshold" was a terrible episode but it wasn't the worst episode in Voyager. "Fury" was the worst episode.
As for "Threshold", it's actually funny here and there. There is no deliberate character annihilation and destruction and the best part with "Threshold" is that it can actually be waved away as some nightmare Paris had.
Compared to "Fury" and other stories with deliberate character destruction "Threshold" is actually acceptable.
Oh, get over it. Lien wasn't the best of actresses and Kes was hardly an interesting character (she could have been - but that's just another missed opportunity Voyager was filled with).
