Titan
- Thread starter craig keith
- Start date
That's all I was saying. Though on an off topic note I have to say I think Nemesis' problem wasn't the film itself (I may get lampooned here, but I really enjoyed it). Look at what it was in direct competition against: Harry Potter, James Bond and Lord of the Rings. But that's all beside the point, its dollar signs these people look at, not what the fans want.
I won't lampoon you, but I will strongly disagree with you. Nemesis was really pretty awful. I don't think that strong competition really hurts movies as much as people claim it does. If you have a good movie, it'll do well regardless of what it's up against.
I think the script wasnt the problem, It was more the director. The Director was brought in and he knew nothing about the Franchise. From the interviews iv seen the cast ( especially levar and brent ) did not get on with this guy just did not know Trek and it clearly showed. On a side note which doesnt matter but annoyed the hell out of me, he turned to phaser rifles into pulse rifles .... WTF.
I don't think Nemesis is the awful film it often gets made out to be, and I do enjoy it. But it has more than its fair share of weak points. I wouldn't blame the competition entirely for it's lacklustre performance, but I do think it was one of the many aspects that worked against it.
For starters, I think Baird gets an unfair amount of the blame. Don't get me wrong, I think he was a bad choice, and he famously clashed with the cast. But there were plenty of problems beside Baird not getting the material. The script really needed at least another pass. And I think there was a little too much focus on fan service, and not enough on logical story choices.
That said, I think there's a good film in there struggling to get out. I'd love to have access to all the rough footage to try and cut a new version together.
^I'd be happy if they just restored the Picard/Data scene after the wedding reception (which is vital to Data's arc in the film, so cutting it was a huge mistake) and dropped the entire dune-buggy chase. I think it's a strong film overall and those poor editorial choices are its principal weaknesses.
Datas death also seemed to be forced, i can think of half a dozen trek reasons of how it could have been avoided. We have also seenn starships blow up in our faces with far less damage then what the Enterprise endured
My main problem really was the Shinzon character never really seemed to have any REAL purpose. First he wanted to be Praetor, then he needed Picard for the blood transfusion, then he wanted to blow up Earth...? Where did he get the extra android, btw? Why is Picard now a hillbilly off-roader? Why was that final stupid fist fight something Picard "needed to do"? Why did Riker have to fight Hellboy guy in the Omega 13 room? Just a sloppy, sloppy movie.
That's certainly one of the places I'd start. Although I kinda like the dune buggy chase, and I enjoyed the cinematography in those scenes. I do agree it's essentially a pointless action sequence that adds nothing to the movie. They could quite easily have cut from B4 opening his eyes and Data's line, to the scene in the lab where they've put him back together.
I liked the cut scene at the end with the new XO, Madden, though I'd have dropped the seatbelt gag.
These are all things that could have been addressed with another pass or two at the script. I also think you could solve at least some of them if the movie was recut.
B4 could have been a brain damaged Lore, after the events of Descent, and Data's quest could have been to fix him, minus the his previous behavioural issues. That said, using Lore would probably have required a bit more exposition, so another prototype may have been the easier route to avoid bogging things down in yet more fan service.
I hated, hated, hated the Madden scene. It was sophomoric and unpleasant.
I think more than a recut was needed - and more than a pass or two at the script. This movie was really pretty fundamentally flawed from the word "go". In my opinion.
Also, the Madden scene was pretty bad. The only good part about it WAS the seatbelt gag at the end (though that would have made a terrible final scene).
Also, the Madden scene was pretty bad. The only good part about it WAS the seatbelt gag at the end (though that would have made a terrible final scene).
The script really could have done without that B4 nonsense. It was already enough that Shinzon was a Picard clone. They should have invested more into that. What about all the other Starfleet Captains and Admirals that were cloned? Did some already infiltrate the Federation? Enterprise and Romulans fighting Starfleet ships and Shinzon in the end, that would have been something.
The wedding should have been the pay off for all the characters after the climax, and not as that random TNG movie intro in which they do stuff that has nothing to do with the rest of the movie (Generations did it, Insurrection did it, and Nemesis, too). Riker and Troi are married, and Picard and Riker part ways, and it ends with Titan and Enterprise leaving orbit, Titan heading in one direction, and the Enterprise in the other.
The wedding should have been the pay off for all the characters after the climax, and not as that random TNG movie intro in which they do stuff that has nothing to do with the rest of the movie (Generations did it, Insurrection did it, and Nemesis, too). Riker and Troi are married, and Picard and Riker part ways, and it ends with Titan and Enterprise leaving orbit, Titan heading in one direction, and the Enterprise in the other.
The wedding at the end would have worked nicely. Though I guess they wanted to have Data in there, which would have been impossible at the end of the movie. That said, I agree it would have worked better that way.
Guess we'll have to disagree on that. Riker's sense of humour often was sophomoric, so I'd argue it was in character for him to do such a thing.
I wasn't suggesting a recut was the solution, I'm saying a recut could address some of those issues. Also, there's no hard or fast rule as to how many drafts a script needs, so you can't possibly say another couple of redrafts couldn't have addressed those issues.
one thing that would've improved it immensely in my opinion would've been Pat Stewart playing Shinzon.
but frankly, if they wanted to do an 'evil double' movie, they should've made a MU movie with the cast playing their MU counterparts.
and if they wanted to do a real cool Romulan flick, they should've come up with a better plot than a crappy TWOK remake.
but frankly, if they wanted to do an 'evil double' movie, they should've made a MU movie with the cast playing their MU counterparts.
and if they wanted to do a real cool Romulan flick, they should've come up with a better plot than a crappy TWOK remake.
That's certainly a fair point.
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