Has Anyone Changed Their Mind About The Movie?
- Thread starter Aike
- Start date
I guess you would agree that an origin story must 1) Explain how the central characters came together and 2) must be written after those characters have already had tales told about them?
I would say that, how the new crew might end up is also irrelevant, from the point of view of an origin story, because it hasn't happened yet. Thus, even if you get rid of canon differentiation, the only characters this could be an origin tale of are the ones we have already seen (including the mirror universe etc). As such, it is either not an origin story, or a false one.
I would say that, how the new crew might end up is also irrelevant, from the point of view of an origin story, because it hasn't happened yet. Thus, even if you get rid of canon differentiation, the only characters this could be an origin tale of are the ones we have already seen (including the mirror universe etc). As such, it is either not an origin story, or a false one.
My family likes to quote Trek at (in)appropriate moments. It's a sure bet that if some family members start arguing, or if the conversation gets too emo/serious someone will interrupt by shouting very loudly,
"YOU NEVER LOVED HER!!"
This draws some stares when in public.
Anyway.. I absolutely adore this movie and have seen it many many times. It is my favorite Trek movie (previous favorites were FC and TUC).
ST:XI is pure wonderfulness, a GIFT after years of loved Trek. To have unbelievably epic new Trek that also captured everything I loved about original Trek in ONE MOVIE..
<3
J. Allen if you're still reading this thread I saw that you've seen ST:XI over 100 times. I raise my (blue beveraged) glass to you sir!
"YOU NEVER LOVED HER!!"
This draws some stares when in public.
Anyway.. I absolutely adore this movie and have seen it many many times. It is my favorite Trek movie (previous favorites were FC and TUC).
ST:XI is pure wonderfulness, a GIFT after years of loved Trek. To have unbelievably epic new Trek that also captured everything I loved about original Trek in ONE MOVIE..
<3
J. Allen if you're still reading this thread I saw that you've seen ST:XI over 100 times. I raise my (blue beveraged) glass to you sir!
An interesting tactic. Hey, I've got an idea. Why don't you relate it whenever you think posters on here might be involved in an altercation?
An interesting tactic. Hey, I've got an idea. Why don't you relate it whenever you think posters on here might be involved in an altercation?
Done.
Oooooooo it looks nifty..
Initially I hated it!
In my mind either Star Trek 2009 was going to be a callous reboot or it was glorified fan fiction that added nothing to overall continuity. Neither one of those ideas were to my liking. Then on top of that J. J. Abrams kept harping on about Star Wars in interviews leading up to this movie’s release. Ugh!
More recently I came to the conclusion that whether we like it or not J-Trek is here to stay! When the day comes when Star Trek finally returns to the small screen it’s misguided to believe it will completely turn a blind eye to this movie series, so either we accept J-Trek for what it is, or we accept the possibility that we will be disappointed with all future carnations of Trek.
I dislike the use of the Nokia ringtone and the ending sort of falls apart on itself, but I’m a lot more open to this series than I used to be. I’ve come to think of it as the beginning of Star Trek: Phase II. An idea which predates TNG, DS9, and Voyager. So not really a reboot. More like an elaborate “What if…”
I’m curious to see what they can do with it.
In my mind either Star Trek 2009 was going to be a callous reboot or it was glorified fan fiction that added nothing to overall continuity. Neither one of those ideas were to my liking. Then on top of that J. J. Abrams kept harping on about Star Wars in interviews leading up to this movie’s release. Ugh!
More recently I came to the conclusion that whether we like it or not J-Trek is here to stay! When the day comes when Star Trek finally returns to the small screen it’s misguided to believe it will completely turn a blind eye to this movie series, so either we accept J-Trek for what it is, or we accept the possibility that we will be disappointed with all future carnations of Trek.
I dislike the use of the Nokia ringtone and the ending sort of falls apart on itself, but I’m a lot more open to this series than I used to be. I’ve come to think of it as the beginning of Star Trek: Phase II. An idea which predates TNG, DS9, and Voyager. So not really a reboot. More like an elaborate “What if…”
I’m curious to see what they can do with it.
I have not changed my mind.
I still Love it.
In my opinion it's the best movie of the 11 made.
That's because you're thinking too logically about something that really isn't logical at all. The fact that the universe is alternate doesn't really mean that much. The characters all ended up in mostly the same positions with mostly the same persona. What we had seen of them before in terms of how they were as characters, not what their detailed history is, is still intact. In that sense, it is an origin story since most people don't care about their histories. We already know where they're going to end up.
Thats Hot.
A
Amaris
Guest
Or a lump of coal depending on your point of view.
Look at it this way, the word Disco has a specific meaning in musical terms. It may be that some people just like music and don’t care whether its Disco or Jazz, but that doesn’t allow them to start calling Disco Jazz. I.e. whether people care about the history of the characters is irrelevant to whether it is an origin story or not. Only satisfying the definition of an origin story will make it one and I believe it doesn’t.
Thus I can only assume you think the definition of "origin story" above is too narrow. If so, how would you modify it?
There is only one thing preventing Jamie Oliver spinning in his grave!
It does matter because that's how they define it. Just like many terms such as science fiction, it's not a completely objective term. It's up for interpretation.
All sorts of similar arguments could be made about previous Trek in regards to what is an origin story. Is the past we see in "All Good Things..." an origin story? Or is it not because their future is different? Is the formation of the Federation in Enterprise an origin story of the Federation, or is it not because of the temporal cold war? When time travel is involved, it is seldom logical. The people who know this then will hinge their definition on the characters and where they are.
That’s not the only reasonable requirement for an origins story.
The first story in a new series is not an origin story. Its just the start of the series. Have a look at "my" definition in a previous post and see what you think.
I agree there may not be a definition set in stone, but to me it just seems nonsensical to describe something as an origin story if it doesn’t show a reasonably consistent portrayal of the characters actual origins. Even worse when it is obviously not intended to do so (irrespective of how many universes there are)!
I don’t see the problem. If the story explains how the characters came together as they are "later" seen (without obvious inconsistencies), its an origin story. Otherwise it’s a reboot, new beginning, alternative history, displaced history, etc. etc. etc. What’s so hard about that? Personally I think people have inadvertently corrupted the term to include a multitude of "sins" and rather than recanting are now trying to rationalise continuing to do so.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
That’s not the only reasonable requirement for an origins story.
The first story in a new series is not an origin story. Its just the start of the series. Have a look at "my" definition in a previous post and see what you think.
I agree there may not be a definition set in stone, but to me it just seems nonsensical to describe something as an origin story if it doesn’t show a reasonably consistent portrayal of the characters actual origins. Even worse when it is obviously not intended to do so (irrespective of how many universes there are)!
I don’t see the problem. If the story explains how the characters came together as they are "later" seen (without obvious inconsistencies), its an origin story. Otherwise it’s a reboot, new beginning, alternative history, displaced history, etc. etc. etc. What’s so hard about that? Personally I think people have inadvertently corrupted the term to include a multitude of "sins" and rather than recanting are now trying to rationalise continuing to do so.
You are just overly pedantic.
Fine, by your definition it's not an origin story. But then, by your definition nothing can be an origin story.
You are grasping at straws here.
So it would seem.
Now you have driven off the other side of the road!
In the case of ST it is certainly not easy (It still wasn't easy even when canon was loosened up as in STXI!). They would probably have to jump forward as each member(s) joined the crew but it is definitely possible. How good it would be is another thing of course.Edit:
number6 said:
Exactly!
My problem was that the "origin story" of the TOS crew... there simply was no such thing. The origin story is that each of them over the years ended up on the Enterprise. It always appeared to me that McCoy and Kirk only met when McCoy replaced Piper on the Enterprise. And Kirk and Spock only met when Kirk took command of the Enterprise. Chekov was someplace else, not on the same shift with Sulu, Uhura & Co. Sulu was a physicist wearing blue first. Everything in a naturalistic fashion.
The new movie turned it into a comic book origin story, and most of the meetings were extremely contrived. McCoy and Uhura taking the Kobayashi Maru test together with Kirk (and year before they even boarded the SAME shuttlecraft to the Academy)? And Spock programmed it? REALLY? And all of them end up on the same ship? SERIOUSLY?
This "fate magnet" part of the story was extremely ridiculous.
The movie was serving the franchise and not the story, which is maybe good for the franchise but pretty bad for the movie in my opinion. Same with the unbelievable promotion to Captain. It's not the result of the movie's story, because it's simply ridiculous even inside the fictional universe. Saving the planet in one mission with some really lucky shots doesn't qualify anyone to command a starship. No, Kirk became Captain because the franchise needs him to be Captain Kirk by the end of the movie. And they all meet in these really contrived ways because the franchise needs Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Sulu, Uhura, Chekov and Scotty all together by the end of the movie.
The Star Wars prequels and its characters suffered a similar problem. Anakin didn't turn to the Dark side for believable reasons, but he did anyway because he needed to be Darth Vader by the end of Episode III. And every other Jedi had to die in really contrived ways just because the franchise needed all of them dead by the end. Etc...
And that's just a plain stupid way to create a story and script, in my opinion.
The new movie turned it into a comic book origin story, and most of the meetings were extremely contrived. McCoy and Uhura taking the Kobayashi Maru test together with Kirk (and year before they even boarded the SAME shuttlecraft to the Academy)? And Spock programmed it? REALLY? And all of them end up on the same ship? SERIOUSLY?
This "fate magnet" part of the story was extremely ridiculous.
The movie was serving the franchise and not the story, which is maybe good for the franchise but pretty bad for the movie in my opinion. Same with the unbelievable promotion to Captain. It's not the result of the movie's story, because it's simply ridiculous even inside the fictional universe. Saving the planet in one mission with some really lucky shots doesn't qualify anyone to command a starship. No, Kirk became Captain because the franchise needs him to be Captain Kirk by the end of the movie. And they all meet in these really contrived ways because the franchise needs Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Sulu, Uhura, Chekov and Scotty all together by the end of the movie.
The Star Wars prequels and its characters suffered a similar problem. Anakin didn't turn to the Dark side for believable reasons, but he did anyway because he needed to be Darth Vader by the end of Episode III. And every other Jedi had to die in really contrived ways just because the franchise needed all of them dead by the end. Etc...
And that's just a plain stupid way to create a story and script, in my opinion.
Similar threads
