Is Star Trek homophobic?
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There -is- ambiguity when different people are assigning different reasons as to why Crusher rejected Odan.
You - Because she couldn't be attracted to a woman.
Therin - Because she couldn't deal with his body-swapping.
Me - It's not clear.
I'd note that I never assigned a value judgment to Crusher's decision. Indeed, how could I when to my mind we don't know the underlying reasoning?
I would point out that there's nothing to indicate that Crusher isn't bisexual.
You - Because she couldn't be attracted to a woman.
Therin - Because she couldn't deal with his body-swapping.
Me - It's not clear.
I'd note that I never assigned a value judgment to Crusher's decision. Indeed, how could I when to my mind we don't know the underlying reasoning?
I would point out that there's nothing to indicate that Crusher isn't bisexual.
You know- the more I read this thread, the more it pisses me off.
Firstly, let's get the question answered. The OP asked if Star Trek was homophobic?
Adj.1.homophobic - prejudiced against homosexual people- being biased or having a belief or attitude formed beforehand; "a prejudiced judge"
Based on that definition from the online dictionary, like I needed to, Star Trek was NOT homophobic.
So let's get that little bit of bullshit cleared up. There's no agruing that point. It simply wasn't. You can't say it was because there weren't any gay characters any more then say it was anti-muslim because there weren't any muslims. Fuck, there weren't any Inuit either? Those racist Star Trek fucks!!!
Now- if someone wants to start a thread about producers, media, and studios possibly being homophobic, then that might just get some real answers. It's completely possible that some studio said "no gays on this show. The public won't react well to it (in my opinion)." That would possibly make them homophobic or just ignorant and chicken.
But no, as per the definition of homophobia, Star Trek is not homophobic. That's not my opinion. It's a fact no different then 2+2=4. Any other answer is just someone being arguementative because they are offended.
Firstly, let's get the question answered. The OP asked if Star Trek was homophobic?
Adj.1.homophobic - prejudiced against homosexual people- being biased or having a belief or attitude formed beforehand; "a prejudiced judge"
Based on that definition from the online dictionary, like I needed to, Star Trek was NOT homophobic.
So let's get that little bit of bullshit cleared up. There's no agruing that point. It simply wasn't. You can't say it was because there weren't any gay characters any more then say it was anti-muslim because there weren't any muslims. Fuck, there weren't any Inuit either? Those racist Star Trek fucks!!!
Now- if someone wants to start a thread about producers, media, and studios possibly being homophobic, then that might just get some real answers. It's completely possible that some studio said "no gays on this show. The public won't react well to it (in my opinion)." That would possibly make them homophobic or just ignorant and chicken.
But no, as per the definition of homophobia, Star Trek is not homophobic. That's not my opinion. It's a fact no different then 2+2=4. Any other answer is just someone being arguementative because they are offended.
Oh and she was quite hetero in the scene where she was making out with the invisible man!
That was a fantastic scene!
At first, Crusher was smiling and seemed eagerly anticipating the arrival of Odan's new host.
She says to Worf, "bring him in", expecting a male.
But the look on her face when she saw it was a female!
I think she expressed it sensibly when she explained the difficulty in dealing with the constant changes.
But if she had added, "I was expecting another male to be the new host, and was surprised it would be a female", I don't think the series's premise would have been affected.
Without the balance, scenes like that could be interpreted as mildly homophobic- as in heterosexuality is the absolute norm, same sex preferences, not as much the norm, in the 24th century..
Still, if you like, Rejoined featured a same-sex kiss and treated it as a none issue, whereas resuming a relationship with an ex from a past host is..
She says to Worf, "bring him in", expecting a male.
But the look on her face when she saw it was a female!
I think she expressed it sensibly when she explained the difficulty in dealing with the constant changes.
But if she had added, "I was expecting another male to be the new host, and was surprised it would be a female", I don't think the series's premise would have been affected.
Without the balance, scenes like that could be interpreted as mildly homophobic- as in heterosexuality is the absolute norm, same sex preferences, not as much the norm, in the 24th century..
Still, if you like, Rejoined featured a same-sex kiss and treated it as a none issue, whereas resuming a relationship with an ex from a past host is..
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I for one do think that Star Trek has displayed a historical prejudice against the religious (just watch "Who Watches the Watchers?," which depicts religion as a horrible thing), and think that Star Trek really ought to depict characters from a wide variety of religious backgrounds -- Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. Just like I think it has displayed heterosexism by refusing to depict LGBT characters and that the time has come for a major LGBT character in the next film.
ETA:
Same-sex civil marriages can be legally obtained in the United States in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the State of Connecticut, the State of Iowa, the State of New Hampshire, the State of Vermont, the District of Columbia, and from the Coquille Indian Tribe in Oregon.
ETA:
Same-sex civil marriages can be legally obtained in the United States in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the State of Connecticut, the State of Iowa, the State of New Hampshire, the State of Vermont, the District of Columbia, and from the Coquille Indian Tribe in Oregon.
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
Then what have you done lately to get your leaders to end both wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? What protests have you got involved in, what veteran's anti-war organizations have you gotten involved in? How sorry are you that America's involved in yet another conflict based on faulty intel just like this intel that got your nation involved in Vietnam? When you do please act-the world that's shown in Star Trek won't come about unless something's done to do so.
I would say 'yes', but I won't, so what I will say is that GLBT people have a right to be bitchy and be assholes, because straight society still treats them like shit, GLBT high school clubs are banned, and the US Army only just repealed DADT-if I were going through shit like that, I'd be bitchy and an asshole too. And if Gene Roddenberry capitulated to Christofascist fundies when his new show wasn't on a network, I'd be hating Star Trek, too.
I love Modern Family, but I find it strange that the two gay, married characters haven't done more than peck each other on the cheek twice in three seasons, and even then only twice. Claire and Phil kiss and embrace in almost every episode, they got caught having sex doggy style last week. Clearly the writers and producers think that, while the audience is ready for a gay couple, they're not that ready. Are they homophobic? Several hundred blogs written over the last few years seem to think so.
From various online dictionary's and wikipedia, Homophobia: Homophobia is a term for a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards homosexuality and people identified or perceived as being GLBT. Definitions of the term refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear.
Coretta Scott King (Widow of the Reverend Martin Luther King) said this of homophobia : "... it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood."
Well the difference there is that there are about 150,000 Inuit people, and there are over a billion Muslims, there should have been Muslims on the show, I think it would have been great to see a female crewmember wearing a hijap (headscarf), Ensign Ro was seen wearing her religious earpiece (also a type of headscarf/headband in Disaster).
Depend on who or what YOU mean by "Star Trek." If you mean the people who are referred to as "TPTB." I believe without question that they collectively meet the definition of homophobic. If you mean the creative team on the show, given the half-assed way they dipped their toes in the water a few times, I'd call that irrational fear, certainly irrational fear by the time of the nineties. Homophobia manifests itself partially through irrational fear.
Again, not depicting gays on the show was a deliberate decision, not an oversight.
Now if you mean by "Star Trek.," in term of being homophobic, the fictional Federation and Starfleet? That's a larger question, and a more difficult one. If Starfleet possesses a non-gay policy in term of their selection and enlistment policies, this would explain why we're not seeing gays in the Starfleet uniform, and we're not. We never hear Captain Picard giving one of his trademark, pompous, holier than thou, long winded speeches when it comes to gay rights. The Federation as a whole is a lot more difficult, because we really haven't seen that much of it. However whenever we have seen a civilian marriages, it's always two heterosexuals (as shown) and never a clearly gay marriage.
CANON, no gay marriages.
On display, no gay marriages.
Picard: "Unacceptable."
Wait a minute, I resemble that remark.
To be fair, the US Army, in fact the entire American military didn't want Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the first place, they felt it was un-necessary and disruptive. It was forced upon them by their civilian leadership in the form of a liberal President. Repealing DADT will simply return the military to it's pre-December 1993 policies. Gays can serve openly in the American military, but they still can not engage in any gay sexual activity in private (or public).
America became "involved" in Vietnam because one of our allies was being attack by a neighboring nation.
But Star Trek does show both the Federation and Starfleet responding to attack upon themselves. Fighting wars, sometimes protracted wars. Engaging in military action in support of allies. Not taking kindly to their Starships (our fighter planes) being fired upon. I'll admit that the Federation never went to war over the breaking of multiple treaties and violation of numerous UN resolutions (part of the reason the coalition went to war in Iraq).
Defending herself?
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I concur. The fact that Star Trek even had attempts at clumsy gay allegories tells me they didn't have an issue with gay people. The fact they didn't do it outright tells me it was likely the TPTB stopping them, or they just weren't brave enough to push for it. After all, the primary purpose of the show is to entertain and to get ratings. That's not homophobic, that's just business, as harsh as it is.
As for TPTB, maybe it was homophobia, or maybe it was simply a case of them worrying about public response. They care about ratings, not pushing the envelope or questioning society. That doesn't usually equal ratings. It's more of a statement on society as a whole than the people in charge (although that is actually worse anyway).
The question of whether TPTB were homophobic is maybe a legitimate one, but the guys working on Trek were not homophobic.
Absolutely spot on sir.
LOL, yeah right, they are all assholes because society made them like that.
My girlfriend works with disabled, and one very important thing I learned from them: No one has the right to be an asshole. Like people in wheelchairs who think they can bitch at anything and everyone just because they think they've earned it because they think life fucked them hard enough. They are assholes, plain and simple. But that's for another thread maybe.
None of which has anything to do with them being gay, straight, black, white, able-bodied, disabled, religious, atheist, liberal, conservative, etc, etc.
LOL, yeah right, they are all assholes because society made them like that.
My girlfriend works with disabled, and one very important thing I learned from them: No one has the right to be an asshole. Like people in wheelchairs who think they can bitch at anything and everyone just because they think they've earned it because they think life fucked them hard enough. They are assholes, plain and simple. But that's for another thread maybe.
I agree with the sentiment, but I'd also say judging an entire group of people by the behaviour of a subset is also the behaviour of an asshole.
And no, I don't personally think Star Trek is homophobic. I'd agree that the some of the people making it may have been far too timid in some of their choices, but that's an entirely personal observation. As others have observed, we don't really have the inside scoop on it, so any opinions are purely that.
None of which has anything to do with them being gay, straight, black, white, able-bodied, disabled, religious, atheist, liberal, conservative, etc, etc.
LOL, yeah right, they are all assholes because society made them like that.
My girlfriend works with disabled, and one very important thing I learned from them: No one has the right to be an asshole. Like people in wheelchairs who think they can bitch at anything and everyone just because they think they've earned it because they think life fucked them hard enough. They are assholes, plain and simple. But that's for another thread maybe.
I agree with the sentiment, but I'd also say judging an entire group of people by the behaviour of a subset is also the behaviour of an asshole.
And no, I don't personally think Star Trek is homophobic. I'd agree that the some of the people making it may have been far too timid in some of their choices, but that's an entirely personal observation. As others have observed, we don't really have the inside scoop on it, so any opinions are purely that.
Who here judged the entire group? I didn't.
That's funny - I had the same thought a couple days ago that someone really needs to define just what exactly homophobia is before you can say whether or not Trek is in fact, homophobic.
This seems like an acceptable definition to me and I still agree that Trek is not in any way homophobic.
I don't know much about the actors who portray Mitchell and Cam beyond the fact that they play Mitchell and Cam... but it could a comfort factor for the actors. Who knows? Plus, if I was gay, I really wouldn't want to see them in a compromising position.
Also Modern Family is mid-way through season 2.
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You can add me to that perfectly reasonable assesment on the subject!!...
My apologies, I was making a general point, and should have made that clearer. Wasn't my intention to point a finger at anyone.
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