Doesn't change the fact that one of the only times that we see lesbian action (sans alien influence) in Star Trek is when it's in the "dark", "forbidden" mirror universe.
Is Star Trek homophobic?
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Doesn't change the fact that one of the only times that we see lesbian action (sans alien influence) in Star Trek is when it's in the "dark", "forbidden" mirror universe.
This may be the closest in-universe reference to sexual preference, or male homosexuality.
It's from "Honor Among Thieves" DS9 :
But notice the context of "ribbing him" is added in the script- either he's joking, or never seriously considered Obrien may not actually be attracted to women.
I've read that some writers or producers wanted to display openly gay couples as early as the first season of TNG but the ideas were ultimately rejected.
Have to agree, I had thought of Voyagers' Warlord, where Kes is about to kiss another female but she's possessed though.
But it does seem like everyone in that mirror universe is a damnned sex addict.
I think Quark may have summed it up in a discussion he had with Odo-humanoids spent millions of years running from things they thought threatened them.
Seeing two changlings do what they do-however natural-is just too much for their genes to handle.
Weird logic but it almost makes sense, unfortunately...
It's from "Honor Among Thieves" DS9 :
But notice the context of "ribbing him" is added in the script- either he's joking, or never seriously considered Obrien may not actually be attracted to women.
I've read that some writers or producers wanted to display openly gay couples as early as the first season of TNG but the ideas were ultimately rejected.
Have to agree, I had thought of Voyagers' Warlord, where Kes is about to kiss another female but she's possessed though.
But it does seem like everyone in that mirror universe is a damnned sex addict.
I think Quark may have summed it up in a discussion he had with Odo-humanoids spent millions of years running from things they thought threatened them.
Seeing two changlings do what they do-however natural-is just too much for their genes to handle.
Weird logic but it almost makes sense, unfortunately...
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A classic description of a transgender. A male personality or consciousness inside of a female body.
In the case of Intendent Kira, the impression I reeive was that her sexual expression was more a power play, or a display of control, than her actual sexuality being manifested.
It was like sex in prison, not sex in the bedroom. It had nothing to do with her orientation, she was manipulating people and enjoying that (and not the sex).
I think largely you are correct and certainly I think that those in charge believe that by avoiding the stereotype of the mincing overly effeminate homosexual male, or the crew cut hyper agressive "butch" lesbian that they have not put forth any negative portrayals.
Personally while I think that JustKate's assessment is correct I can certainly understand why it is so grating. It would be like Trek not showing ANY people of color in the regular universe, and then they show up in MU episodes and they are behaving as the worst kinds of stereotypes.
However honestly I think that what the MU episodes really point up is the almost juvenile nature of the staff when it comes to thinks like sex and relationships.
Star Trek writers' attitude to sex is repressed to the point of insanity. Someone pointed out there were 600 odd episodes of ST over the decades and the steamiest it got was the odd chaste kiss. Occasionally you would see people decorously covered up in bed but well apart. It wasn't until Enterprise that you saw anything approaching adult behaviour. It doesn't lend itself well to an accusation of exclusive attitude to any kind of sexuality.
I consider Trek a fairly family friendly show, so this doesn't surprise me at all (or bother me).
Although I consider it a canonical fact that Riker got laid on every single planet they visited. I don't need to see it happening. I could tell by the smile, and the spring in his step. FACT.
It's a common criticism you always hear about western television. Can't say I disagree at all, but society as a whole moves pretty slowly to correct it, despite more and more people realizing the issue.
At least Trek tries to use the "friendly" approach of stunning rather than killing, but the kill:love ratio is still skewed.
At least Trek tries to use the "friendly" approach of stunning rather than killing, but the kill:love ratio is still skewed.
Its the typical gay portrayal - the whole point of the character is the fact that they are gay. Their "gayness" is the reason for the character's existence. You would never see a cop show, for example, where the lead, when he leaves to go to work, kisses his husband and kids goodbye. He would be a cop that happened to be gay, not a gay guy that happened to be a cop. Homosexuality is still portrayed as an anamoly by the media, much like being a person of color used to be (and still is in many places). When that perception changes, then we can talk about the troglodytes that populate this country starting to come around.
Wait, wasn't Tam Elbrun gay?
He wasn't shown in a sexual context because of the confines of the plot in "Tin Man", not that it should be a requirement. But in everything he said, his very body language and mannerisms said 'homosexual' to me.
The character may not have been written as such, but that certainly seems to be the way Harry Groener went with it. There was nothing overly negative or dark about the character, quite the contrary. He was possibly one of the warmest and most accepting characters in all of Trek. Yes, he came across as rude in most instances because the act of being within close proximity to sentient humanoids effectively gave him a bad migraine. That has nothing to do with his hypothetical sexuality.
I agree that even if Elbrun was written as gay and it was never mentioned onscreen, or if it's just a coincidence that Harry affected that demeanor when playing that character, or whatever. It still is quite shameful that in the now 45 years of Trek we haven't seen even one instance or mention of a positive homosexual character. The closest we came IMO was Lenara Khan and Jadzia Dax in DS9. But it involves the Trill, so the whole thing amounts to body-switching and doesn’t count.
TPTB in Trek missed a great opportunity, whether deliberately or through sheer short-sightedness… we’ll never really know.
He wasn't shown in a sexual context because of the confines of the plot in "Tin Man", not that it should be a requirement. But in everything he said, his very body language and mannerisms said 'homosexual' to me.
The character may not have been written as such, but that certainly seems to be the way Harry Groener went with it. There was nothing overly negative or dark about the character, quite the contrary. He was possibly one of the warmest and most accepting characters in all of Trek. Yes, he came across as rude in most instances because the act of being within close proximity to sentient humanoids effectively gave him a bad migraine. That has nothing to do with his hypothetical sexuality.
I agree that even if Elbrun was written as gay and it was never mentioned onscreen, or if it's just a coincidence that Harry affected that demeanor when playing that character, or whatever. It still is quite shameful that in the now 45 years of Trek we haven't seen even one instance or mention of a positive homosexual character. The closest we came IMO was Lenara Khan and Jadzia Dax in DS9. But it involves the Trill, so the whole thing amounts to body-switching and doesn’t count.
TPTB in Trek missed a great opportunity, whether deliberately or through sheer short-sightedness… we’ll never really know.
Double post.
You're right. Those homophobes! Because the absence of evidence is evidence in itelf, right? Because they didn't address gay issues, they're homophobic.
Christ, people who jump to stupid conclusions like that make me sick. They're no better then ignorant intolerant assholes...
FYI- and I didn't read the whole thread, so I'm sure someone pointed out the episodes where they had an androgynous society. Riker fell for a ladyboy for all we bloody know since we never saw he/she's plumbing...
And Gender changes... hell, what about the Trill that Crusher was into. But then he turned into a hot she, and Crusher dumped her. Sure, for an honest reason not borne from bigotry or intolerance, but still a disappointment. I was hoping for at least one hot parting kiss!
Now what wasn't EVER looked at in Star Trek?
What great opportunity? Trek has never handled relationship drama well in any way. It woulda been a train wreck.
Why would Ensign Fred answer anything other than "I have plans"? Unless he wanted attention. When someone asks me to do something and I have plans with the Misses, I never go "I have plans with the wife". The reason I have plans is immaterial to the question. The situation you state above screams tokenism.
You're wrong.
Honestly, none of us will ever know. Only the staff writers will ever really know if their was a policy to discourage homosexual characters on Modern Trek.
We're debating in a vacuum.
Yes it does... though I wouldn't have suspected that based on your avatar...
To jump to such a conclusion based on your pathetic narrow-minded, 10 year old brain's observational skills, is completely and utterly a mistake.
I'm not exactly running shit deep in gay friends, knowing only a couple. Two of my friend's brothers, and a cousin, but for the record,
they are just-
(wait for it)
like-
(WAIT)
US!
For the most part... Yes, some are more flamboyant and arrogant, but tell me, how many body builders aren't like that?
There's an almighty gulf between something being homophobic and simply not covering gay issues. Calling startrek homophobic is like calling a football team who just happen to field an all White team racist. It simply isn't.
Remember the 1st season of TNG, the male crewmemvers in the background were wearing what I can only approximate as skirts rather than trousers. These were only removed due to a negative reaction from fans. The very fact they were put in in the first place, in my opinion, was to reflect the more liberal and accepting nature of society in the future.
An absence of gay characters is in no way homophobic. This belittles the impact real homophobia. If someone can quote me one homophobic line/scene from star trek I would be stunned.
Remember the 1st season of TNG, the male crewmemvers in the background were wearing what I can only approximate as skirts rather than trousers. These were only removed due to a negative reaction from fans. The very fact they were put in in the first place, in my opinion, was to reflect the more liberal and accepting nature of society in the future.
An absence of gay characters is in no way homophobic. This belittles the impact real homophobia. If someone can quote me one homophobic line/scene from star trek I would be stunned.
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