Seems like ages since DMP2 was found. Lets hope 2011 brings some exciting discoveries.
Or just something.
Or just something.
Seven years since the last missing episode find...
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Daleks Master Plan and Evil of the Daleks were the last episodes found, by a BBC Technician who didn't know he had them. They were returned because Doctor Who was at its peak popularity.
I think the most likely episode to be found would be Marco Polo. It was the episode most sold abroad and had the most copies made.
That said, I don't think there are anymore to be found. Film degrades and we're talking 1963-1968.
I think the most likely episode to be found would be Marco Polo. It was the episode most sold abroad and had the most copies made.
That said, I don't think there are anymore to be found. Film degrades and we're talking 1963-1968.
Don't do that! 
I thought something was found...
I thought something was found...
I think I posted an 'almost 7 years since the last discovery' thread in October.
Merely marking the anniversary of DMP2.
It was found in 2004, a year before the show premiered. I think it got bigger once it started airing. (yeah, minor nitpicking
)The missing Metropolis footage was a hell of a lot older.
It was found in 2004, a year before the show premiered. I think it got bigger once it started airing. (yeah, minor nitpicking
The missing Metropolis footage was a hell of a lot older.
Not sure, but wouldn't the stuff sent around the world be on tape by then? Or were they actually duplicating the film and sending it around?
It was found in 2004, a year before the show premiered. I think it got bigger once it started airing. (yeah, minor nitpicking
The missing Metropolis footage was a hell of a lot older.
Not sure, but wouldn't the stuff sent around the world be on tape by then? Or were they actually duplicating the film and sending it around?
Only a certain number of films were sent out, and were recycled between countries (called bicycling). New Zealand received a print, broadcast it from it's four major centres then sent them off to another country, usually Singapore.
Film was universal whereas with video tape you'd have frame rate (25 PAL, 29.97 NTSC) and resolution (576 PAL, 480 NTSC) to deal with.
It was found in 2004, a year before the show premiered. I think it got bigger once it started airing. (yeah, minor nitpicking
The missing Metropolis footage was a hell of a lot older.
That reminds me... I ordered it when it was released in November. Got it just after Christmas because Amazon sold through quickly and I had to wait and... I still haven't watched it yet. I really need to watch it but... my gf wouldn't be interested and I'd rather watch it on the big TV, with proper sound, as opposed to watching it on my laptop. So, I keep waiting for my opportunity to get some alone time with the TV and Metropolis.
Not quite - the technician who had the episodes in question (Daleks' Master Plan: 2 and The Daleks: 5) always knew he had them, however he was reluctant to return them as he was concerned he would get in trouble for effectively stealing them in the first place.
IIRC he decided to return the episodes to the BBC as he was retiring and wanted to do something with them and when researching them discovered the Restoration Team website where he found out he could return them and not get in any trouble for having taken them in the first place.
Weren't you supposed to find some "lost treasures" during a building demolition?
Wut up wit dat?
Weren't you supposed to find some "lost treasures" during a building demolition?
Wut up wit dat?
Believe me when I say I scoured every inch as we left.
I got nothing.
It really is worth getting a copy of Richard Molesworth's Wiped!
He avoids making any assumptions, but if you work through the extensive appendices about which countires which episodes were sold to (and when), then a bigger picture does start to come clear, in terms of how many copies there were of a particular episode, which countries sent them on to which other countries, and which copies are confirmed as definitely destroyed.
Pull it together, and there most likely recoveries are all from MArco Polo:
Episodes 1 and 2 were sent to Iran from New Zealand, not confirmed as being destroyed, but it's 40 years since the last record of where they were. Episodes 3-7 are listed as being destroyed by TVNZ around 1975 after being at the Harriet Street store in 1970. (*See Harriet Street store, below)
Also, the copies of the first five stories which were run in Canada in 1965 were probably sent to Barbados, which ran them later in 1965. No records of what happened to the prints, but again, it's 45 years ago...
And that involves a lot of 2+2 might equal five... Beyond that, the three main hopes for any episode recoveries are now:
a) Person working at the BBC who kept a spare print that should have been destroyed and doesn't realise it's the last copy.
b) The Harriet Stret store in New Zealand. The paperwork says it was all junked around 1975, but at least one missing Who episode (The Crusade 1) was saved at random from the several hundred being dumped. About 100 film cans are believed to have been saved... but at random, without checking the content, so there's no way of knowing if there were any other Who episodes, or if any more of them them have survived since 1975.
c) Asia TV in Hong Kong: Despite saying in the early 1980s that they'd checked their vaults and didn't have any Doctor WHo, they returned Tomb in 1992. TV Asia is the last place in the paper trail for a lot of stories, but... Tomb was found 18 years. The station's vaults might still have uncatalogued stuff in a corner, but....
He avoids making any assumptions, but if you work through the extensive appendices about which countires which episodes were sold to (and when), then a bigger picture does start to come clear, in terms of how many copies there were of a particular episode, which countries sent them on to which other countries, and which copies are confirmed as definitely destroyed.
Pull it together, and there most likely recoveries are all from MArco Polo:
Episodes 1 and 2 were sent to Iran from New Zealand, not confirmed as being destroyed, but it's 40 years since the last record of where they were. Episodes 3-7 are listed as being destroyed by TVNZ around 1975 after being at the Harriet Street store in 1970. (*See Harriet Street store, below)
Also, the copies of the first five stories which were run in Canada in 1965 were probably sent to Barbados, which ran them later in 1965. No records of what happened to the prints, but again, it's 45 years ago...
And that involves a lot of 2+2 might equal five... Beyond that, the three main hopes for any episode recoveries are now:
a) Person working at the BBC who kept a spare print that should have been destroyed and doesn't realise it's the last copy.
b) The Harriet Stret store in New Zealand. The paperwork says it was all junked around 1975, but at least one missing Who episode (The Crusade 1) was saved at random from the several hundred being dumped. About 100 film cans are believed to have been saved... but at random, without checking the content, so there's no way of knowing if there were any other Who episodes, or if any more of them them have survived since 1975.
c) Asia TV in Hong Kong: Despite saying in the early 1980s that they'd checked their vaults and didn't have any Doctor WHo, they returned Tomb in 1992. TV Asia is the last place in the paper trail for a lot of stories, but... Tomb was found 18 years. The station's vaults might still have uncatalogued stuff in a corner, but....
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^ I really want a copy of that. Must have a look for it.
Also, it's not a hard and fast rule that "all film" and "all videotape" degrades as fast as people think, otherwise there would literally be thousands of films and TV shows self-destructing every year. If the film is preserved, or kept in the proper conditions, then it can survive a long time. Ditto video - I've seen pristine videotape recordings from the late 1950s (specifically a 1957 or so TV performance of Peter Pan starring Mary Martin that aired on PBS a few years back). The original negative of Star Wars: A New Hope was falling to pieces less than 30 years after it was struck, but I've never heard similar statements made regarding, say, From Russia With Love.
The Metropolis film that was found was NOT pristine, and in fact is very rough to look at, because it was just kept in a tin for 75 years. They did their best for the DVD/Blu-ray but the fact is, it was kept because it was the only known existing copy of the missing footage. So the assumption is the people who love the film won't care (and it does make the film a lot better to watch, scratches and crops and all).
That said, up until 20 or so months ago, it was deemed impossible that any of Metropolis' lost footage would ever be located because of some of the same reasons stated here: age, and film condition. We were all proven wrong.
Similarly, last year a cache of BBC programmes from the early 1960s, long believed wiped (and one featuring Patrick Troughton) was found in, of all places, the Library of Congress.
None of this means a guarantee we'll ever see The Tenth Planet Episode 4, or those 8 or 9 missing Daleks Master Plan episodes. But these two recent finds, by themselves, are enough for me to never say "never" with regards to finding lost Doctor Who in the future (or lost Avengers, for that matter).
Alex
^ Exactly. In 1991 some people said we probably won't have any more episodes show up after Tomb, then 8 years later The Crusade 1 showed up. Then they said that's all, all done, and DMP2 arrived.
Who knows what the future will bring.
Who knows what the future will bring.
