Okay, my question is discounting Capt. Braxtons temporal incursions, how many time line shifts does Voyager go through? I know of the in "Rage" where Kes comes back, and changes it up, I know of the one in shattered i think? Where chakotay and Janeway meet adult Echeb and Naomi, and learn of their deaths, and somehow avoid them, and finally in Endgame where Janeway Breaks The TPD and changes it again, did i miss any?
Multiple timelines
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"Before and After" season 3.
"Year of Hell" season 4.
"Shattered" isn't really a timeline shift as much as it is a meeting of multiple timelines at one spot.
Oh, and just a slight clarification... your "Rage" is our "Fury".
"Year of Hell" season 4.
"Shattered" isn't really a timeline shift as much as it is a meeting of multiple timelines at one spot.
Oh, and just a slight clarification... your "Rage" is our "Fury".
That season one episode where Tom wears the colourful man-skirt.
^^ Oh HOW could I forget! 
Its not a timeline ep, but "Eye of the Needle" did have a time aspect to it.
Its not a timeline ep, but "Eye of the Needle" did have a time aspect to it.
yeah, im not the best at recalling ep. names. But year of hell wasnt made by the voyager, it was a temporal incursion by The Krenim, right? so the time line changed one way then changed back, so is it really a time line change?
Time was changed, the same instance of time, a small march of important months, was changed thousands of times for 200 years. The shape of space and empire was radically altered by the removal of artefacts, species and planets intrinsic to continuity and the shape of the known present.
Though from how this story was phrased, there are no alternate timelines and time is never split. There is only one liquid and mutable history/present/future which can be tamed and made to service the whim of a single minded individual who understands the science and possesses the technology.
Though from how this story was phrased, there are no alternate timelines and time is never split. There is only one liquid and mutable history/present/future which can be tamed and made to service the whim of a single minded individual who understands the science and possesses the technology.
Yes, time was changed, and in the end it was changed BY Janeway's direct and purposeful intervention.
Hmmm.
Should we consider this a mark against her, the way some fans decry her actions in "Endgame"? In "Endgame" she changed time for 24 people (22 deaths and Chak/Tuvok).
In "YOH", she changed time for 150 people on her ship.
Is there a difference?
Annorax had been blowing up planets for 200 years deviating the path of time from it's determined and fixed and intended shape. Wiping out thousands and thousands of species, one after the other until he'd deformed the universe into something ugly, which was more to his liking.
This is a rare case where Kathy reset the universe and put things back on track to how they were SUPPOSED to be with some certainty of righteousness because Annorax's constant obvious attempts at chipping away at his dislikes till perhaps one day there was nothing left was blatantly a foreign influence, or if I may speak plainly: "rape".
Janeway didn't know that she would make things better or worse for the entire universe, but she did not roll the dice, she was able to rationalise that some sort of laissez-faire random water finding it's own level act of god, must be better than ascribing to the master plan of a genocidal madman?
That's my praise for Janeway.
Here's where I explain why she's a puss.
Captain Janeway should have left Voyagers temporal shields on and she should not have ordered the fleet to turn their shields off too. It was suicide and murder to assume that they had no place in the original timeline she was forcing the regression of the universe towards and that their envelopment of their counterparts was/is obnoxious and objectionable because surely it's her job to save day and not off herself just when it's really beginning to look interesting.
I do suppose the shields murder their doppelgangers when the the universe reshapes around them and that's nasty, but birth is always a little messy, and sacrifice is the Starfleet way, but she murdered her crew so that Doppelganger MIGHT thrive who could have already have been dead in the naked impression of the timeline.
"Sigh."
This is a rare case where Kathy reset the universe and put things back on track to how they were SUPPOSED to be with some certainty of righteousness because Annorax's constant obvious attempts at chipping away at his dislikes till perhaps one day there was nothing left was blatantly a foreign influence, or if I may speak plainly: "rape".
Janeway didn't know that she would make things better or worse for the entire universe, but she did not roll the dice, she was able to rationalise that some sort of laissez-faire random water finding it's own level act of god, must be better than ascribing to the master plan of a genocidal madman?
That's my praise for Janeway.
Here's where I explain why she's a puss.
Captain Janeway should have left Voyagers temporal shields on and she should not have ordered the fleet to turn their shields off too. It was suicide and murder to assume that they had no place in the original timeline she was forcing the regression of the universe towards and that their envelopment of their counterparts was/is obnoxious and objectionable because surely it's her job to save day and not off herself just when it's really beginning to look interesting.
I do suppose the shields murder their doppelgangers when the the universe reshapes around them and that's nasty, but birth is always a little messy, and sacrifice is the Starfleet way, but she murdered her crew so that Doppelganger MIGHT thrive who could have already have been dead in the naked impression of the timeline.
"Sigh."
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Remember when McCoy tried to stop Scotty from giving away the formula for transparent aluminum? Scotty asked, "How do we know he didn't invent it in the first place?
How does Kathryn "know" that some fool screwing with time wasn't supposed to be doing it "anyway?"
The Starfleeter in her would have said, "Don't know, Don't care, I'm going to stop it so...
"You go girl!
Actually the Starfleet way is to leave things alone.
Meddling: bad.
Janeways supreme impertinence to decide the fate of the Universe and trillions upon infinite in it, is criminal or perfectly and naturally Romulan.
However at the time, although a Starfleet officer on a Starfleet ship, Janeway was actually taking point for a multi species alliance whose Prime Directive was "we will not be timeraped by the Krenim". She was working for the local powers, a duly appointed representative of dozens of worlds, more so than taking the law and morality into her own hands and on her own shoulders.
The Non Interference Policy mentioned during the Klingon Civil War (redemption) would seem to insist that although Starfleet has to stay out of strictly internal matters, which as wandering vagrants almost every thing they encounter is internal since they usually have no point of external reference, but in this case Janeway made an alliance and fought her enemies enemies which does seem to be above board (almost) if you ignore that it was she that created the enmity between the Krenim and every other species in that region of Space.
Meddling: bad.
Janeways supreme impertinence to decide the fate of the Universe and trillions upon infinite in it, is criminal or perfectly and naturally Romulan.
However at the time, although a Starfleet officer on a Starfleet ship, Janeway was actually taking point for a multi species alliance whose Prime Directive was "we will not be timeraped by the Krenim". She was working for the local powers, a duly appointed representative of dozens of worlds, more so than taking the law and morality into her own hands and on her own shoulders.
The Non Interference Policy mentioned during the Klingon Civil War (redemption) would seem to insist that although Starfleet has to stay out of strictly internal matters, which as wandering vagrants almost every thing they encounter is internal since they usually have no point of external reference, but in this case Janeway made an alliance and fought her enemies enemies which does seem to be above board (almost) if you ignore that it was she that created the enmity between the Krenim and every other species in that region of Space.
Braxton mentioned a paradox, where by going back in time your actions cause what you wanted to prevent, what wa it called, the pogo paradox? Anyway, what was the one where Chakotay and kim go back in time to save voyager?
Timeless.
The universe reimagines itself for the most part to overcome paradoxes, the only real example of a paradox was in Time and Time Again when everything snapped back as events became impossible.
(There are no universal rules. bad writers keep violating canon because they're stupid.)
VOY Relativity
(There are no universal rules. bad writers keep violating canon because they're stupid.)
VOY Relativity
TNG Suspicions
Voy Timeless
Re: Differences between FC/INS Sovereign & NEM Sovereign?
What on Earth did Braxton "repair" in the Takara sector? Harry and Chuckles meddling was pretty straightforward, and hardly deserving of such an ominous name as "temporal inversion"
Neat find, btw.
What on Earth did Braxton "repair" in the Takara sector? Harry and Chuckles meddling was pretty straightforward, and hardly deserving of such an ominous name as "temporal inversion"
Neat find, btw.
Well the Takara sector contained a planet where Voyager crashed in 'Timeless' episode.
I would surmise that the 'temporal inversion' refers to Harry and Chakotay's deliberate (and successful) attempt at changing history.
To Braxton, changing 15 years of history (any amount of it anyway) is not exactly a small thing.
I would surmise that the 'temporal inversion' refers to Harry and Chakotay's deliberate (and successful) attempt at changing history.
To Braxton, changing 15 years of history (any amount of it anyway) is not exactly a small thing.
Here's what I like.
Temporal refugees.
TasHa Yar rocked... Sela's cradle.
Temporal refugees.
TasHa Yar rocked... Sela's cradle.
I wish, after the last scene of Endgame played, they showed a closeup of Braxton doing "The Scream" face and yelling "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! WHY WHY WHY"
But I guess he would have been in time jail. I guess they could have showed the face of that other dude in Relativity.
But I guess he would have been in time jail. I guess they could have showed the face of that other dude in Relativity.
You need to think more fourth dimensionally.
Old Braxton had to have been driven mad by plenty of Kathy's shenanigans when he was younger and maybe this was just another one of them?
Old Braxton had to have been driven mad by plenty of Kathy's shenanigans when he was younger and maybe this was just another one of them?
Yeah, im fairly certain that by the end of braxtons career, he is pretty deranged,but the whole temporal aspect gets really confusing, like if voyager made a temporal inversion, it would exist for all future, unless somebody changed it, so couldnt they just go back, like a few minutes before the action and stop it? Maybe they do this, but Voyager always turns it into a big production.
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