Offended by Christmas???

[RJDiogenes]

^^ People can say whatever they want. If you're really complaining about the fact that businesses have policies about how their employees interact with customers, you're just being silly; do you get upset if clerks say, "Have a nice day," instead of "God be with you?"

Face it, kids: This is a marketing program cooked up by the religious Right. Non issue in the real world.

 

[Jetfire]

Just say "Blessed be."



[edit] Don't you mean the "religious wrong"?

 

[RJDiogenes]

Back in the 60s, we used to say, "Left is right and Right is wrong."

Not as true as it used to be, but still funny.

 

[Warped9]

Let me clear. Having to work Boxing Day isn't the same issue as an agenda to marginalize Christmas. But it's hard to separate the two when you have an abbreviated Christmas holiday.

That said this past December you couldn't help but notice that many retailers, most particularly the large ones, didn't even bother decorating their stores beyond some paltry targeted holiday signage. Perhaps it isn't a big thing, but it was rather depressing. I heard a number of customers comment and complain and some store staff that I happened to speak with weren't happy about it either. They found it depressing in that they still had to deal with all the elevated work load and stress yet didn't see one little thing to remind them that there was something more going on then just more work to be done shorthanded.

There seemed to be a common sentiment that it didn't feel like Christmas for a lot of folks. Of course there can be many reasons why someone might say that. But in this case there was general agreement that while decorations don't make it Christmas they do affect mood in an uplifting way and creates an atmosphere. They found it depressing that their employers couldn't be bothered to decorate or allow for decorating in the workplace while still expecting the same results from staff and customers. To me this was more a way of marginalizing the sense of Christmas than making people work Boxing Day.

Of course, there's no way I can know whether retailers in the U.S. were following this policy, but it was quite prominent here in Ontario, Canada. And if Wal-Mart is doing it (or not as the case may be) here then I suspect they were doing it in all their stores.

 

[CaptainStoner]

That said this past December you couldn't help but notice that many retailers, most particularly the large ones, didn't even bother decorating their stores beyond some paltry targeted holiday signage. Perhaps it isn't a big thing, but it was rather depressing. I heard a number of customers comment and complain and some store staff that I happened to speak with weren't happy about it either. They found it depressing in that they still had to deal with all the elevated work load and stress yet didn't see one little thing to remind them that there was something more going on then just more work to be done shorthanded.

There seemed to be a common sentiment that it didn't feel like Christmas for a lot of folks. Of course there can be many reasons why someone might say that. But in this case there was general agreement that while decorations don't make it Christmas they do affect mood in an uplifting way and creates an atmosphere. They found it depressing that their employers couldn't be bothered to decorate or allow for decorating in the workplace while still expecting the same results from staff and customers. To me this was more a way of marginalizing the sense of Christmas than making people work Boxing Day.

Of course, there's no way I can know whether retailers in the U.S. were following this policy, but it was quite prominent here in Ontario, Canada. And if Wal-Mart is doing it (or not as the case may be) here then I suspect they were doing it in all their stores.

It seems to me that your complaint is also its source. It's the commercialization that leads to the manic, nonstop Christmas music in gas station speakers and in malls, and to less time off. Having it not feel like Christmas in Wal-Mart ought to be a Godsend. Jesus Christ it surely is.
Christmas is a schizophrenic thing, 50% of it is forgotten paganism wrapped up in bows. Most of that stuff has lost its sacred meaning, except on an instinctual level. People are drawn to it, mystically, and don't know why. To dress up in suits that are as much Holly King as St. Nicholas.
Perhaps losing touch with those roots made Christmas more vulnerable to commercialization. Who sees a touch of the sacred in mistletoe, holly and ivy, wassailing, christmas wreaths and trees and a magical old man with faerie-like powers who works with elves?
Those roots are deep, and yet not acknowledged for what they are. So all of those images are taken advantage of and commercialized. Christmas is literally just attending Church on Dec. 25th; it can't hope to encapsulate the entire Yuletide season. And yet many of us long for that, for several days of holiday, of deep reflection, and even to be in a society that has an underlying recognition and respect for these sacred cycles we all share, regardless of religion, which ought to be the real meaning of "Happy Holidays".

 

[Warped9]

One can try to explain away why things are the way they are, but it doesn't change the way people feel. It doesn't matter what the origins of traditions are because it is what people experience that affects them.

We all have a personal history of what Christmas is, what it entails, what it looks like and what it feels like. And any attempt to explain away those things is really just another way of marginalizing the significance of what people feel and experience.

It doesn't matter that everyone knows this is the birthday of Christ and that his birthday wasn't even near December 25th. What matters is what the holiday means to people and how they recognize it.

Here I consider it one of the great ironies that we celebrate a day of hope and goodwill to all followed immediately by an orgy celebrating a display of the most arrant greed imaginable by business and consumers alike. There is no repose, no collective pause, less than a normal weekend, before diving right back into the rat race.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Live Christmas as you see it in your own life and your own time, and render onto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Even if that Caesar is Wal-Mart (or, Little Caesar's ), and what is theirs is that you work the terms you agreed to when you were hired there. And if that's too onerous, find yourself another Caesar that asks more acceptable things of you. And if you can't do that, then try to at least accept it as a blessing that you have a job, in this economy.

As an aside, regarding TheBrew's classification of posters who insist that corporal punishment is a valid part of discipline as "some posters thinking that children should be struck more" - 1. That sort of intentionally biased wording and slant on others' opinions is worthy of Fox News, so congratulations on that. and 2. It always amazes me how often people who take a hardline position against corporal punishment have never had children of their own.

Something to think about: We (humans) are NOT beings that are close to evolving out of this mortal flesh and becoming entities of pure light, thought, and love. We are essentially monkeys who had a nice evolutionary quirk that has allowed us to build what we call civilization - but still doesn't look too damned civilized when we look at the details closely. One of the places this can be seen most clearly is in our children. We love them, and they are small cute versions of us - but neither of those things changes that they are baby monkeys who haven't learned to be what we would consider "civilized adult humans" yet. If we can get the ideas that we need to get across for them and for civilization to survive to them in a civilized, thoughtful manner, then GREAT - and we should do so every chance we get. But if not - and there ARE times when we cannot - then sometimes Pavlov can and must do the job.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Well said.

 

[USS Triumphant]

^^ Well said.

Thank you.

Let me add to that that NO ONE despises child abusers more than parents who spank appropriately. We have learned when it is and isn't right, and so we know that it isn't simply a matter of a difference in child-rearing policy when someone goes too far, or "punishes" too often and for the wrong reasons. Lumping us in with them serves no one - especially not abused children.

 

[Nowhere Man]

There is a war on Christmas you know. Happy Festivus!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Same. I don't mind Christmas music, but the fact that it starts playing so early combined with most of it being so cheesy gets grating fast.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151730/santa-and-jesus#tab=featured

Christmas time is once a year.
Every critter holds it dear.
Every animal big or small,
Christmas means so much to us all.
It's once a year, it's Christmastime!
And it happens once a year.
It's once a year, it's Christmastime!
When we hear about how Christmas only comes
Once a year.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/257102/christmastime-is-once-a-year

 

[CaptainStoner]

There is no repose, no collective pause, less than a normal weekend, before diving right back into the rat race.

I agree completely. The solstice, Yule, Christmas, all of it should entail such a time, and not having that is like having frosting with no cake, like having a perfect cup of tea and no time to sip it.
I think the origins are fascinating, but I also agree that knowing of them does nothing to slow the pace.
Imaginging a moment when a whole society collectively stops and breathes is worth imagining, and lamenting. I think practically, we need to find such times, or take such times, in our own microcosms, while the rest of the world hurries on.
Merry 8th Day of Christmas, Warped9.

 

[Warped9]

Does anyone know when or what the actual "twelve days of Christmas" actually are?

I know my parents speak of when they were young (in southeastern Quebec) their observance of Christmas and New Year's lasted until January 6th. I'm not saying people didn't work until then, but there seemed to be a more prolonged period of observance and celebration visiting friends and family and when you could still hear some holiday music up to the 6th.

I know twenty-five years ago or so I had a job where the warehouse closed down between Christmas and New Year's except for two days to do inventory. We got paid the days we worked as well as a week's pay as a Christmas bonus. That did indeed feel like a decent break.

 

[Clamp]

Just got here, and I haven't read all 200 posts, so no doubt I'm doubling someone.

Who could possibly be offended by Christmas? I mean, the only people I can think of would be the pagans. "Hey! We want back our winter festival celebrating the rebirth of the sun! Take off you hosers!"

I mean, how is it possible to have a problem with Santa?

I suppose what offends most about christmas is the wasteful killing of millions of trees to stick in our livingrooms for three weeks. But really, those are corn-fed trees, raised in little cages on tree farms, so I suppose it's similar to killing a cow to bring a little part of it into your kitchen for a short amount of time. Just leave the free-range trees alone.

I personally think Christmas is funny, and I don't care too much for it myself.

Any non-christian who is offended by Christmas should just loosen his tie and see the lighter side. If you can't get a few kicks watching Glenn Beck and Pat Robertson drape themselves in stolen pagan symbols, then I just don't know how you can have fun in the world.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Does anyone know when or what the actual "twelve days of Christmas" actually are?

I know my parents speak of when they were young (in southeastern Quebec) their observance of Christmas and New Year's lasted until January 6th. I'm not saying people didn't work until then, but there seemed to be a more prolonged period of observance and celebration visiting friends and family and when you could still hear some holiday music up to the 6th.

I know twenty-five years ago or so I had a job where the warehouse closed down between Christmas and New Year's except for two days to do inventory. We got paid the days we worked as well as a week's pay as a Christmas bonus. That did indeed feel like a decent break.

I believe it has to do with time from Christmas ---> Epiphany, when the 3 Kings actually arrived with their gifts.
Here is an interesting article
http://www.cresourcei.org/cy12days.html

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Does anyone know when or what the actual "twelve days of Christmas" actually are?

A beer...in a tree.
Two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Three French toasts, two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Four pounds of back bacon, three french toasts, two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Five golden toques!

(sorry, I had the sudden urge to quote the MacKenzie Brothers )

 

[Clamp]

Does anyone know when or what the actual "twelve days of Christmas" actually are?

A beer...in a tree.
Two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Three French toasts, two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Four pounds of back bacon, three french toasts, two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Five golden toques!

(sorry, I had the sudden urge to quote the MacKenzie Brothers )

koo loo koo koo koo koo koo koo koo!!!!

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

I say Merry Christmas and anyone who is offended can GTFO out of my country.

Well, okay, it's not really my country because I wasn't born here but they can still GTFO.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I say Merry Christmas and anyone who is offended can GTFO out of my country.

Well, okay, it's not really my country...

Sweet, sweet irony.

I don't think anyone's going to take such an ultimatum seriously, anyway.

 

[Kira's Mom]

Does anyone know when or what the actual "twelve days of Christmas" actually are?

A beer...in a tree.
Two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Three French toasts, two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Four pounds of back bacon, three french toasts, two turtlenecks, and a beer...in a tree.
Five golden toques!

(sorry, I had the sudden urge to quote the MacKenzie Brothers )

Nooooooooo! Now it's stuck in my head.