I love the Romulans because...

[The Overlord]

Not sure I've ever bought the idea of Romulans having "honor" as a defining characteristic. We saw some honor from the BOT Commander, but he was shown to be a relic from an earlier age and not in step with the rest of Romulus. The Commander from RI isn't exactly a paragon of honor with trying to turn Spock through seduction and bribery. (Though Kirk and Spock are equally unhonorable in their actions) Alls fair in Love and war I guess. Cunning and sneaky define the Romulans more than honor. Too bad the "Trouble With Tribbles" didnt feature the Romulans as the bad guys. The sneaky Darvin and the slippery/charming Koloth work better as Romulans than Klingons.

Honor works fine for describing the Romulans, if you think of it in terms of the Romans. Honor is a matter of supporting your home, your family and respect for ancestors. Also, it is in creating and fostering alliances and patronage so as to advance ones career in society. The Romans didn't feel any honor was impinged on by stabbing enemies in the back, that is more in lines with a chivalric code. They aren't operating on a medieval concept of chivalry, where one is expected to oppose ones enemy on equal terms or avoid lies and deceit.

But the Romulans need more then "Honor" to be a well developed society. What you described isn't in of itself make for a well developed society. I would be more interested in knowing out kind of government the Romulans have rather then more stories about honor. Are the Romulans a democracy or a dictatorship? Who holds the real power, the Senate or the Praetor? What makes the Romulans unique, because a lot of stories use them as generic bad guys.

 

[Jakks]

I like the Romulans as they were conceived in Trek TOS -- the "good" bad guys. Warlike and ruthless, yes. But they had admirable qualities like honor, integrity, dignity and stoicism. (And cool-looking helmets.) The Klingons, OTOH, were originally supposed to be the REAL nasties.

This!

 

[Gov Kodos]

Not sure I've ever bought the idea of Romulans having "honor" as a defining characteristic. We saw some honor from the BOT Commander, but he was shown to be a relic from an earlier age and not in step with the rest of Romulus. The Commander from RI isn't exactly a paragon of honor with trying to turn Spock through seduction and bribery. (Though Kirk and Spock are equally unhonorable in their actions) Alls fair in Love and war I guess. Cunning and sneaky define the Romulans more than honor. Too bad the "Trouble With Tribbles" didnt feature the Romulans as the bad guys. The sneaky Darvin and the slippery/charming Koloth work better as Romulans than Klingons.

Honor works fine for describing the Romulans, if you think of it in terms of the Romans. Honor is a matter of supporting your home, your family and respect for ancestors. Also, it is in creating and fostering alliances and patronage so as to advance ones career in society. The Romans didn't feel any honor was impinged on by stabbing enemies in the back, that is more in lines with a chivalric code. They aren't operating on a medieval concept of chivalry, where one is expected to oppose ones enemy on equal terms or avoid lies and deceit.

But the Romulans need more then "Honor" to be a well developed society. What you described isn't in of itself make for a well developed society. I would be more interested in knowing out kind of government the Romulans have rather then more stories about honor. Are the Romulans a democracy or a dictatorship? Who holds the real power, the Senate or the Praetor? What makes the Romulans unique, because a lot of stories use them as generic bad guys.

I was responding to the honor issue, not government. I assumed the honor issue as Roman since quite a few of their ranks are Roman terms. If you are concerned with government one might postulate from TOS they have one similar to the Romans.

 

[T'Girl]

Except that the Romulans are apparently lead by a praetor. And in the old Roman system, a praetor in nowhere near the top of the political power structure. Praetors were judges and sometimes generals.

It's only recently that the Italian legal system stopped using the term praetor.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Except that the Romulans are apparently lead by a praetor. And in the old Roman system, a praetor in nowhere near the top of the political power structure. Praetors were judges and sometimes generals.

It's only recently that the Italian legal system stopped using the term praetor.

The system doesn't have to follow Roman titles and systems to the letter. They are just a possible inspirational source. Praetors at the start were given specific powers in order to carry out the will of the consuls and the senate. In terms of TOS 'The Balance of Terror' the praetor mentioned may be tasked with testing the boarders and trying out the new ships and weapons as a prelude to war. Something which is implied (seeking to find out if the Federation is weak and ripe for attack.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

While there is a Roman veneer to the Romulans, the source material for BOT is a sub vs destroyer movie set in WWII, the Enemy Below. Decius is the analog of the loyal Nazi Party memeber The Commander and the Centurion ( the only Roman rank used) are old schools pre Third Reich Germans and the Praetor is the Fuhrer, ( I have to wonder it it was chosen because it sounds similar) In their next major appearence the Romulans became analogs for the North Koreans.

So, Romulans are Treks original Space Nazis!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The Cardies are more the Space Nazi type - they have that oblivious, self-defeating, egotistical aspect. The Romulans are too smart to be true Space Nazis. They are an original type, so that there's no obvious correllation to Earth culture. To just make them "honorable Romans" isn't edgy, villainous and alien enough.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nah, they're Romanized Nazi North Koreans. They cant be an original type if their first story is lifted from a WWII movie.

 

[T'Girl]

I have always wonder just how big the Romulan Empire was. For reasons I can't fully articulate, I believe that it is smaller than both the Federation and the Klingon Empire. But at the same time bigger than say the Cardassian Union. And the Romulans are one of the few interstellar states that is composed of multiple species, assuming the Romulans and the Remans are truly separate species (I've heard it both ways). Given that the Romulans themselves would be at the top of the societal latter, perhaps their government has non-Romulans in their version of the legislature or commons (Romulans being the "Lords").

One thing I remember about the Romans was, all the peoples that they conquered became Roman citizens. So going from that, and assuming that Romulans were in fact building their Empire through conquest, the peoples of the surrounding star systems might also be Romulan citizens. First, second ... fifth class citizens. All have a presents in the government.

Data said during Nemesis: "The Remans themselves are considered an undesirable caste in the hierarchy of the Empire." You have to have more that one caste to have castes at all.

From dialog in Nemesis, Shinzon (who came from the mines of Remus) became a mid-level ranking officer during the Dominion War. So not all personnel in the Romulan military are Romulan. Aboard the Scimitar there were no Romulans stationed , so the Remans had positions other than simple infantry cannon fodder.

 

[Paradon]

Just because someone does not have a lot of fear does not mean they cannot be cunning and is very impulsive. You can get these people to calm down and live like normal civilians. They usually take jobs that involve a lot risks. The Romans speak centurians which were made of these people. A lot of cultures use people with these type of personality (people who do not feel fear or remorse) as hit man. People who act impulsively all the time who can't calm down and always are always getting into trouble are usually weak and probably run at the first sign of trouble....maybe that's how the Klingons are supposed to be. [laugh] The Breen are examples of what people who really have gumption and laugh at death are like.

 

[The Overlord]

Honor works fine for describing the Romulans, if you think of it in terms of the Romans. Honor is a matter of supporting your home, your family and respect for ancestors. Also, it is in creating and fostering alliances and patronage so as to advance ones career in society. The Romans didn't feel any honor was impinged on by stabbing enemies in the back, that is more in lines with a chivalric code. They aren't operating on a medieval concept of chivalry, where one is expected to oppose ones enemy on equal terms or avoid lies and deceit.

But the Romulans need more then "Honor" to be a well developed society. What you described isn't in of itself make for a well developed society. I would be more interested in knowing out kind of government the Romulans have rather then more stories about honor. Are the Romulans a democracy or a dictatorship? Who holds the real power, the Senate or the Praetor? What makes the Romulans unique, because a lot of stories use them as generic bad guys.

I was responding to the honor issue, not government. I assumed the honor issue as Roman since quite a few of their ranks are Roman terms. If you are concerned with government one might postulate from TOS they have one similar to the Romans.

Which Romans, before Julius Caesar took over or after that? Because Romans have been completely different societies depending on the time period.

At this point making the Romulans another "Proud Warrior Race" would be boring, because the Klingons already have that role. Perhaps back in the 60s Roddenberry intended them to have that role, but he clearly decided later on decided to give the Klingons that role and the Klingons have been directed that way since the 80s, while Romulans have moved away from that. At this point the Romulans focusing on "Honor" would make them generic rather then unique, it would make them seem like poor man's Klingons. Frankly I would get sick about stories about honor, if that is the driving point behind the Klingons and the Romulans.

 

[Gov Kodos]

But the Romulans need more then "Honor" to be a well developed society. What you described isn't in of itself make for a well developed society. I would be more interested in knowing out kind of government the Romulans have rather then more stories about honor. Are the Romulans a democracy or a dictatorship? Who holds the real power, the Senate or the Praetor? What makes the Romulans unique, because a lot of stories use them as generic bad guys.

I was responding to the honor issue, not government. I assumed the honor issue as Roman since quite a few of their ranks are Roman terms. If you are concerned with government one might postulate from TOS they have one similar to the Romans.

Which Romans, before Julius Caesar took over or after that? Because Romans have been completely different societies depending on the time period.

At this point making the Romulans another "Proud Warrior Race" would be boring, because the Klingons already have that role. Perhaps back in the 60s Roddenberry intended them to have that role, but he clearly decided later on decided to give the Klingons that role and the Klingons have been directed that way since the 80s, while Romulans have moved away from that. At this point the Romulans focusing on "Honor" would make them generic rather then unique, it would make them seem like poor man's Klingons. Frankly I would get sick about stories about honor, if that is the driving point behind the Klingons and the Romulans.

Roman culture didn't change with Caesar, it was the government that did. I have no idea what you are on about as I was responding to a different poster's comments about honor, not government. And whatever might be the case for the Romans, does not have to be the same for the Romulans. They are a fictional people using a patina of terms taken from Roman culture. They don't have to be depicted with any kind of accuracy to Rome in any one to one sense in either culture or government.

 

[Paradon]

If Klingons are supposed to be a proud warrior race and very intelligent, then they must have a lot of chemical imbalances. A lot of people say King Richard The First of England was brilliant and showed no fear (probably England and British greatest king, ever), but a lot of scholars think he may have some type of chemical imbalance...like Sisko. [laugh] But I think in Sisko case the Prophets pulled his consciousness out too much.

 

[Enderw]

I love the Romulans because they seem to be the only other race that washes regularly and had the proper amount of body hair removed. LOL!