Stealing Trek Literature

[Greg Cox]

I understand why people pirate movies, but I can't imagine why anyone would think the publishing industry and its authors can withstand that kind of piracy.

Alas, people who try to rationalize this kind of thing often seem to think that science fiction publishers are the literary equivalent of Big Oil, racking in obscene profits while gouging struggling readers, while all authors live in penthouses like that guy on Castle. "Don't worry about the authors," somebody actually posted on a different message board once. "I'm sure they're doing just fine."

And then there was the lawyer (!) who insisted that we freelance writers were just being greedy and didn't understand that ordinary people didn't have money to burn . . . .

Sigh.

 

[ATimson]

If you can't afford to buy the book, use a library.

It's hard to use a library when the publisher refuses to sell ebooks to libraries, though.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It's hard to use a library when the publisher refuses to sell ebooks to libraries, though.

In that case, the library probably offers the actual book! Eeek! A yukky ol' book!

If you're not prepared to pay for the eBook and download it yourself, you're probably not that committed to reading the thing in the first place.

 

[Christopher]

Actually I just noticed today, when doing a search of my library's online catalog, that they've now added a checkbox to their search engine that says "Search only downloadable material." So it seems libraries are beginning to offer at least some e-books (unless that "material" was just audio or video, but still, it's movement in that direction).

 

[KingstonTrekker]

I have little patience for giant corporations that are upset at missing another few dollars from a film or album that's made millions of dollars. "I can't even put fuel in my jet plane!," like they said on South Park. I'm sorry, but I just do not care if I'm stealing money from Jeffrey Katzenberg's pocket.

But, by the same token, I have a lot of sympathy for the authors of TrekLit, most of whom are middle class Americans who genuinely need the money they earn from their novels to make a living.

I understand why people pirate movies, but I can't imagine why anyone would think the publishing industry and its authors can withstand that kind of piracy.

Basically you are saying that it is okay to steal in some circumstances. Who the heck are you to determine who deserves or does not deserve to receive royalties from a creative endeavour? It is incredulous what arguments people will use to support thievery!! Yes....what you are advocating is stealing and robbery in cases which align with your own "moral" compass and dubious thinking.

 

[Christopher]

The wrongness of stealing is not contingent on whether you like the victim. What makes laws meaningful as a social contract is their universality, the fact that they are impartially applied to everyone. If something is against the law, you don't do it. That's categorical, not situational. Respect for the law is part of what enables society to function. In exchange for the expectation that you will be protected by the law, society in turn expects that you will obey the law -- not just in situations where it's convenient or seems to make sense to you, but in all situations. Refusing to steal from someone isn't about respecting that person, it's about respecting everyone you share your society with by agreeing to abide by the laws that protect them.

If you don't approve of a law, there are mechanisms for getting it changed. But as long as it's in place, your responsibility as a member of society is to follow it. Or at least, if you violate the law as an act of civil disobedience, to accept the legal penalties for that violation.

 

[TerraUnam]

Canada also has a Library Royalties Scheme. I can't remember the official title, but authors get a cut for library sales and lending.

With due respect to annoying price gap between Canadian and US book editions, $9.99 plus shipping for a mass market paper back isn't highway robbery and seems to me to be in the range of fair prices.

If they could equalize US and Canadian prices I would be happy, but c'est la vie.

 

[Greg Cox]

One wonders if people would even think of applying the same rationalizations to a physical book?

"Eh, bookstores make too much money, so I'll just slip this paperback under my jacket and walk out."

Somehow I suspect that that same people who blithely download pirated books would never even think of shoplifting . . . which makes no sense whatsover.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Canadian and US book editions, $9.99 plus shipping for a mass market paper back isn't highway robbery and seems to me to be in the range of fair prices.

For a time, Canada's Simon & Schuster printed their own copies. A little maple leaf logo appeared on the cover. A friend once lent me her Canadian copy of "Web of the Romulans" before my US imported copy arrived in the mail. I guess that was one way to keep prices down in the old days.

My local newsagent sells Australian printings of IDW Star Trek comics at the moment, and they are several dollars cheaper than imported IDW versions of the same comics, and the Marvel and DC superhero comics that sit alongside the local Wilkinson IDW's.

Supply and demand plus shipping/warehousing equals more money required.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Canada also has a Library Royalties Scheme. I can't remember the official title, but authors get a cut for library sales and lending.

With due respect to annoying price gap between Canadian and US book editions, $9.99 plus shipping for a mass market paper back isn't highway robbery and seems to me to be in the range of fair prices.

If they could equalize US and Canadian prices I would be happy, but c'est la vie.

When the US gets 5 books and I get four for the same $40 then it's not fair. If the Canadian dollar stays over par will you still believe that it's fair? It's 25% more than the US price. Comparing iMac's on Apple's website, the difference is 8%. If you want to subsidize the publishers, go right ahead.

 

[Therin of Andor]

If the Canadian dollar stays over par will you still believe that it's fair? It's 25% more than the US price.

I dunno. Is Canada charging an import duty on US goods?

 

[kkozoriz1]

Nope. NAFTA takes care of that. Prices, before any sales taxes, should be about the same. Maybe a bit more for transportation. But $10 vs $8 for the same thing is crazy.

 

[Marie1]

I have little patience for giant corporations that are upset at missing another few dollars from a film or album that's made millions of dollars. "I can't even put fuel in my jet plane!," like they said on South Park. I'm sorry, but I just do not care if I'm stealing money from Jeffrey Katzenberg's pocket.

But, by the same token, I have a lot of sympathy for the authors of TrekLit, most of whom are middle class Americans who genuinely need the money they earn from their novels to make a living.

I understand why people pirate movies, but I can't imagine why anyone would think the publishing industry and its authors can withstand that kind of piracy.

A few people will make millions from the book/movie/album that made millions, but hundreds came together to create that oftentimes and they need every little bit to stay afloat.

 

[elaithin]

I have to confess - I have downloaded Star Trek, and other books in the past. BUT, I have to stress, it's only been for books that I already owned a legitimate,physical copy of. If there were books I didn't already own, I removed them from the download. Primarily, this was for the purpose of if anything happened to my physical copy, I would still be able to read it until able to replace it. (I've had dogs that thought paperback books make wonderful chew toys.)

Would that be considered the same crime, honestly? (Which I completely agree is wrong, of course. Let me get that out there.) I viewed it the same as making a digital backup of a purchased DVD, which is something I do with all of my kid's movies - I haven't seen it with some of the newer movies, so I don't know if they've made them more scratch-resistant, but some of the early DVDs got scratched really damned easily.

 

[Sci]

I have little patience for giant corporations that are upset at missing another few dollars from a film or album that's made millions of dollars. "I can't even put fuel in my jet plane!," like they said on South Park. I'm sorry, but I just do not care if I'm stealing money from Jeffrey Katzenberg's pocket.

But, by the same token, I have a lot of sympathy for the authors of TrekLit, most of whom are middle class Americans who genuinely need the money they earn from their novels to make a living.

I understand why people pirate movies, but I can't imagine why anyone would think the publishing industry and its authors can withstand that kind of piracy.

Basically you are saying that it is okay to steal in some circumstances.

I didn't say it was okay, I said I don't give a shit if it's someone who's rich. (And, no, I don't pirate, but thanks for making an assumption.) And, by the same token, if a website that distributes the stuff gets shut down, well, too bad -- I have no pity for the web pirates, either. But I really just don't care when it's a giant corporation that actually does make and pay millions of dollars. As far as I'm concerned there, it's just a matter of whatever the traffic can bear.

 

[Greg Cox]

But I really just don't care when it's a giant corporation that actually does make and pay millions of dollars. As far as I'm concerned there, it's just a matter of whatever the traffic can bear.

But just hypothetically, and no personal attack intended, would you consider it okay to "appropriate" physical objects from individuals or companies that you considered to be worth millions.

Is it okay to shoplift from a big department store chain, but not from a mom-and-pop store?

Just on an abstract level, that seems a slippery slope. Especially since, as someone else pointed out, for every big corporate exec earning millions, there are probably thousands of rank-and-file workers who depend on the company's success for their weekly wages.

COMPANY X may make billions a year, but I doubt everyone who works (or writes) for them does . . . .

 

[JRoss]

Really sorry to hear about this, Scott. I'll confess that I used to download PDF books, though I never did any Star Trek books, pirate-like. When I started writing I realized how pirate downloads hurt authors. I really hope that the downloaders can see reason.

 

[David R. George III]

I have to confess - I have downloaded Star Trek, and other books in the past. BUT, I have to stress, it's only been for books that I already owned a legitimate,physical copy of. If there were books I didn't already own, I removed them from the download. Primarily, this was for the purpose of if anything happened to my physical copy, I would still be able to read it until able to replace it. (I've had dogs that thought paperback books make wonderful chew toys.)

Would that be considered the same crime, honestly? (Which I completely agree is wrong, of course. Let me get that out there.) I viewed it the same as making a digital backup of a purchased DVD, which is something I do with all of my kid's movies - I haven't seen it with some of the newer movies, so I don't know if they've made them more scratch-resistant, but some of the early DVDs got scratched really damned easily.

"Would that be considered the same crime, honestly?" Speaking as a mathematician, no, not the same crime, perhaps, but to my way of thinking, an equivalently odious crime. By utilizing a site that facilitates the illegal downloading of copyrighted material, you are helping support their unlawful and immoral endeavors.

Here's what I truly do not understand, at least on a personal level. You say that you "completely agree" that downloading copyrighted material for free "is wrong"...and yet you do it anyway. I know the difference between right and wrong, and when something is wrong, I don't do it. For me, taking an action one knows is wrong is in some regards worse than taking a wrong action one justifies as right.

 

[JRoss]

Oh, and I'll say that I have also deleted all the pirate books. Only legitimately-purchased pdfs for me.

 

[elaithin]

"Would that be considered the same crime, honestly?" Speaking as a mathematician, no, not the same crime, perhaps, but to my way of thinking, an equivalently odious crime. By utilizing a site that facilitates the illegal downloading of copyrighted material, you are helping support their unlawful and immoral endeavors.

Here's what I truly do not understand, at least on a personal level. You say that you "completely agree" that downloading copyrighted material for free "is wrong"...and yet you do it anyway. I know the difference between right and wrong, and when something is wrong, I don't do it. For me, taking an action one knows is wrong is in some regards worse than taking a wrong action one justifies as right.

Poor choice of words on my part, perhaps, because here's the thing: I honestly didn't (and still don't, really) see that as a crime. I have legitimately paid for a copy of those books. If I had not done so, that would absolutely be stealing. If I wanted to scan in each page myself to ensure having a backup copy, I could, but it would likely destroy the original to do it. It doesn't make sense to me to have to pay twice to have to have the security of a digital copy.

I can certainly see your point with the 'enabling' point of view. (And in any event, I haven't done this in quite some time anyway. The dog who ate books returned to his original owners.)

Again - the question I'm asking is that, if a reader has paid for a legitimate copy of the book, be it in hardback, paperback, or e-book format (though the latter precludes the need for it), is it then acceptable to download a copy for backup purposes? I seem to recall this being legal, though I have to admit that I could be wrong on that point.