The Kazon, worst Star Trek villains ever?

[Expendable]

The Bajorans were the worst villains, IMHO.

But yes, the Kazon weren't that cool. They didn't seem very inspired. They could have spent more time making all the sects different. But ultimately they were the "poor man's Klingons."

I don't think that the Bajorans were really ever painted as "villains".

 

[Anwar]

Of course, I also wish that Voyager had been more like NuBSG -- a ship struggling to survive in a strange quadrant while facing ongoing attacks from real villians (e.g. the Viddians), dealing with the need to search for resources and fuel, etc...a real struggle for survival.

Look, as much as folks say they want this it just wouldn't make any sense. In Trek the Galaxy is LOADED with aliens everywhere, whereas in NuBSG the entire Universe is totally empty of life except for humans and Cylons.

So it wouldn't make sense that VOY wouldn't always have some friendly starbases or repaid worlds to go to for repairs and supplies, with the only struggles being how to barter for stuff.

If anything, VOY could've benefited from being more like Farscape than NuBSG.

Hell, Farscape had 1-D space Nazis in the Peacekeepers as villains for the entire show and no one complained that THEY were lame.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Bajorans were the worst villains, IMHO.

But yes, the Kazon weren't that cool. They didn't seem very inspired. They could have spent more time making all the sects different. But ultimately they were the "poor man's Klingons."

I don't think that the Bajorans were really ever painted as "villains".

There was the group called "The Circle" which took over DS9 one time. I thought it was a somewhat dull hostile takeover.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

They're just quasi-Klingons. lol.. Heck, they even LOOK like Klingons.

The Kazon were the exception to the rule though, since the Hirogen, Voth (if only for one episode) and the Vidiians were capably written enemies.

Ooooooh the Vidiians. They could have been far nastier. That would have been fun.

I thought the Vidiians were scarier than The Borg and Kazon put together! You met them, you DIED, that was it. They took out all your organs and harvested them. End of story. What's scarier than that? At least a very few managed to escape the Collective. With the Vidiians, you bought the farm.

In the episode 'Faces' a vidiian cuts off some guy's face and sticks it on his own to make Torres like him or something

That was pretty gross. They were sorta good villians, the vidiians. Hell, they wanted to take Neelix's Lungs, that's a thumbs up from me

 

[Kai Winn]

Are the Kazon the worst Star Trek villains ever? They seem like bad knock offs the Klingons, only less threaten, less interesting and way less intelligent. No wonder they were never used after season 2.

no, this honour certainly goes to the dominion. the kazon might be silly and annoying, but no match for the sheer absurdity of founders and jem-hadar.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

The Bajorans were the worst villains, IMHO.

But yes, the Kazon weren't that cool. They didn't seem very inspired. They could have spent more time making all the sects different. But ultimately they were the "poor man's Klingons."

I don't think that the Bajorans were really ever painted as "villains".

There was the group called "The Circle" which took over DS9 one time. I thought it was a somewhat dull hostile takeover.

Dude, the Circle trilogy was one of the best season openers in Trek EVER! What show were you watching? And the actions of a rogue group of Bajoran political extremists hardly classifies the entire race as "villians" ... but hey, whatever, we obviously have very different viewpoints.

 

[DS9forever]

It seemed rather odd that Culluh's Kazon were following Voyager for about a year.

 

[Cyke101]

I liked the original set up of the Kazon. The fact that they were warring tribes in the fashion of LA gangs already painted them as an anti-Federation before the Dominion came onto the scene was a great start, and their debut was great (the battle at the end of Caretaker was pretty smooth for Trek at the time). Unfortunately, the tribes were written and executed so blandly and so generically that the idea crashed upon themselves.

(for the record, the Dominion also didn't quite get the anti-Federation idea either, but I think the Kazon were intended to get that role first)

 

[henbane]

Ooooooh the Vidiians. They could have been far nastier. That would have been fun.

I thought the Vidiians were scarier than The Borg and Kazon put together! You met them, you DIED, that was it. They took out all your organs and harvested them. End of story. What's scarier than that? At least a very few managed to escape the Collective. With the Vidiians, you bought the farm.

In the episode 'Faces' a vidiian cuts off some guy's face and sticks it on his own to make Torres like him or something

That was pretty gross. They were sorta good villians, the vidiians. Hell, they wanted to take Neelix's Lungs, that's a thumbs up from me

Agree - the Vidiians were my favourite enemy! Any enemy that you fear, yet you develop an empathy with is a great enemy!

 

[kimc]

I thought the Kazon/Trabe story had potential, but it never went anywhere.

Yeah, I always thought they could have drawn that out more....

 

[Cyke101]

I thought the Vidiians were scarier than The Borg and Kazon put together! You met them, you DIED, that was it. They took out all your organs and harvested them. End of story. What's scarier than that? At least a very few managed to escape the Collective. With the Vidiians, you bought the farm.

In the episode 'Faces' a vidiian cuts off some guy's face and sticks it on his own to make Torres like him or something

That was pretty gross. They were sorta good villians, the vidiians. Hell, they wanted to take Neelix's Lungs, that's a thumbs up from me

Agree - the Vidiians were my favourite enemy! Any enemy that you fear, yet you develop an empathy with is a great enemy!

I have to admit, a race of Hannibal Lecters (hey, with all the crazy shit they did, I don't put the consumption of sentient races beyond them!) is pretty damn terrifying.

 

[Infern0]

I hated the Kazon, they were rubbish.

 

[exodus]

I think the Kazon failed because they weren't violent enough.
If they were based on L.A. Street gangs, they should of had a shoot first mentality.
They never killed anybody for any reason.
L.A. Street gangs also don't allow there women to order the male members around.
Kullah should have back handed Seska everytime she mouthed off to him in front of his men, yet while in private she'd be his "queen".
Too me they're nothing like Klingons, Klingons will stab you just as a joke.
Klingons are more like Samurai, due to there codes of honor.
Nothing about the Kazon made them threatening.

 

[exodus]

In the episode 'Faces' a vidiian cuts off some guy's face and sticks it on his own to make Torres like him or something

That was pretty gross. They were sorta good villians, the vidiians. Hell, they wanted to take Neelix's Lungs, that's a thumbs up from me

Agree - the Vidiians were my favourite enemy! Any enemy that you fear, yet you develop an empathy with is a great enemy!

I have to admit, a race of Hannibal Lecters (hey, with all the crazy shit they did, I don't put the consumption of sentient races beyond them!) is pretty damn terrifying.

The Vidiians didn't eat people, the Hirogen did.

 

[the G-man]

They were meant to be a representation of LA street gangs. I can't say they're my favorite villains but I wouldn't call them the worst. Personally, I've grown less fond of the borg - they started out pretty cool but started going downhill with "First Contact".

The Borg were great in First Contact. And FC should have been the last time we saw them. Unfortunately, the writers kept going back to that particular well to ever diminishing returns.

 

[Gojira]

If the only way to keep a villain menacing is to only use them once ever few seasons, they're a lamely thought out villain. The Borg are totally dead-end and overpowered as a foe, VOY simple proved it.

The Kazon might've worked out better if they didn't LOOK like Klingons and were more like the Raiders from "Road Warrior": An organized intelligent bunch who were using limited resources and tech, who desperately want VOY's own tech to propel them to dominance over their rivals and create (harsh military) order over emptiness.

That way we get the inverse of the usual hero/villain dynamic: Instead of a powerful enemy vs a weaker hero who must outwit them somehow, we get a strong hero vs a weaker foe that must use cunning and trickery to hope to win.

I agree with what you have said. With trek villains the "less is more" philosophy works. If you beat them enough like the Borg have been beaten then they become ineffective villains. Also, I didn't like the looks of the Kazon either.

 

[exodus]

If the only way to keep a villain menacing is to only use them once ever few seasons, they're a lamely thought out villain. The Borg are totally dead-end and overpowered as a foe, VOY simple proved it.

The Kazon might've worked out better if they didn't LOOK like Klingons and were more like the Raiders from "Road Warrior": An organized intelligent bunch who were using limited resources and tech, who desperately want VOY's own tech to propel them to dominance over their rivals and create (harsh military) order over emptiness.

That way we get the inverse of the usual hero/villain dynamic: Instead of a powerful enemy vs a weaker hero who must outwit them somehow, we get a strong hero vs a weaker foe that must use cunning and trickery to hope to win.

I agree with what you have said. With trek villains the "less is more" philosophy works. If you beat them enough like the Borg have been beaten then they become ineffective villains. Also, I didn't like the looks of the Kazon either.

What about Klingons?
We see them ALL THE TIME, yet we never get tired of them no matter how non-threatening they seem now. Yet we very rarely see the Romulans and fans are disappointed by that many times. As much as we saw the Dominion, they became more & more threatening each time.

So I guess what I'm tring to say is, where is the happy medium?
Is it less is more or does it have more to do with stories about these villains each time they featured?

 

[Gojira]

What about Klingons? We see them ALL THE TIME, yet we never get tired of them no matter how non-threatening they seem now. Yet we very rarely see the Romulans and fans are disappointed by that many times. As much as we saw the Dominion, they became more & more threatening each time.

In the original series we only saw the Klingons in a small handful of episodes. They were shown in the original series movies but only The Search for Spock featured them. Since TNG the Kilngons are no longer the bad guy and that is why we can see them all the time. If you make the bad guys into good guys then you can feature them more.

So I guess what I'm tring to say is, where is the happy medium? Is it less is more or does it have more to do with stories about these villains each time they featured?

The trick is to continue to keep them threatening in some way. Look at the Superman and Batman franchises. The main villains, Lex Luthor and the Joker are still popular even though they have been defeated at every outing. So I guess the answer is make the villains multidimensional and complex (which the Kazon weren't) otherwise they lose their effectiveness if used too many times.

 

[Cyke101]

Agree - the Vidiians were my favourite enemy! Any enemy that you fear, yet you develop an empathy with is a great enemy!

I have to admit, a race of Hannibal Lecters (hey, with all the crazy shit they did, I don't put the consumption of sentient races beyond them!) is pretty damn terrifying.

The Vidiians didn't eat people, the Hirogen did.

Blah-blah, details. Besides, with all that "innovative procedures" they did, how do we know they didn't eat people? Cannibalism (at least in sentient species terms) seems like child's play compared to some of the stuff they did.

 

[exodus]

I have to admit, a race of Hannibal Lecters (hey, with all the crazy shit they did, I don't put the consumption of sentient races beyond them!) is pretty damn terrifying.

The Vidiians didn't eat people, the Hirogen did.

Blah-blah, details. Besides, with all that "innovative procedures" they did, how do we know they didn't eat people? Cannibalism (at least in sentient species terms) seems like child's play compared to some of the stuff they did.

To use your own quote: details.
They made them out to be more like Lepers, which aren't cannibals.