A shark is always dangerous symbolism for a long-running show to evoke, these days. 
Great white sharks are thought to live for maybe thirty years.
Great white sharks are thought to live for maybe thirty years.
A Christmas Carol discussion and grading thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
EJA seems to love watching or reading things and trying to discover continuity errors and deciding based on them weather or not he likes what he just read or watched. I couldn't enjoy anything doing that.
To whoever asked:
The first scene with the freezing chamber and the family asking for her for Christmas, the count on the chamber is "9".
The first scene with the freezing chamber and the family asking for her for Christmas, the count on the chamber is "9".
A shark is always dangerous symbolism for a long-running show to evoke, these days.
As someone else pointed out, the show didn't jump the shark, the shark jumped the show
Far be it from me to feed anyone's neurosis about errors, but I like catching gaffs. Sometimes they reveal interesting things about how shows are made, but they usually just prove that even the best production teams are human and make errors. Some shows make so many errors or one or two really big ones that it ruins suspension of disbelief -- you start to wonder if anyone on the production even cares about what they're producing. But as long as there aren't many, it's fun to find mistakes.
Such as:
"Okay. I'll be back. Waay back." The Doctor opens an ornate double door, revealing the familiar TARDIS just beyond. A close-up frames his face with the TARDIS just beyond as he turns back and emphasises, "Way, way back!"
Cut back to a longer shot as the Doctor closes the door, with the projection from Kazran's Secret Project playing over the wall and doorway. Between the two doors, you can still see light from the TARDIS windows peeking through the crack.
The old wheeze of the time machine echoes through the room and then the young Master Sardick in the projection reacts to the sound and turns to see The Doctor at his window. "See? Back!"
BUT -- the windows of the TARDIS are still visible through the crack between old Kazran's double doors!
I hope I haven't ruined the episode for anyone, it was a minor glitch that I caught just because I was deliberately watching that crack to see the windows disappear -- I love the materialization/dematerialization scenes. It's something of a fetish.
Such as:
"Okay. I'll be back. Waay back." The Doctor opens an ornate double door, revealing the familiar TARDIS just beyond. A close-up frames his face with the TARDIS just beyond as he turns back and emphasises, "Way, way back!"
Cut back to a longer shot as the Doctor closes the door, with the projection from Kazran's Secret Project playing over the wall and doorway. Between the two doors, you can still see light from the TARDIS windows peeking through the crack.
The old wheeze of the time machine echoes through the room and then the young Master Sardick in the projection reacts to the sound and turns to see The Doctor at his window. "See? Back!"
BUT -- the windows of the TARDIS are still visible through the crack between old Kazran's double doors!
I hope I haven't ruined the episode for anyone, it was a minor glitch that I caught just because I was deliberately watching that crack to see the windows disappear -- I love the materialization/dematerialization scenes. It's something of a fetish.
Fear not, anything related to the TARDIS will eventually become a fetish in the long run. The white nose of the moonbase in the film, um, Moon, sounds a lot like the white noise aboard the TARDIS. Also, I was happy when the doors of the new/Moffat TARDIS stopped squeaking like the RTD-era TARDIS. But I could only notice such things if I didn't have a fetish myself. We should start a support group
I enjoyed the episode. I really wonder how Steven Moffat can keep track of these weird time travel hijinx he uses in nearly every episode he writes. I hate to think of how he's mapped out the Doctor's relationship with River.
The Trek style starship bridge was awesome and the Trek XI style lens flares going off every 15 seconds were hilarious.
Nitpick time (and I haven't bothered to read this thread, so don't get upset if someone else has already brought these up):
-When elderly Kazran and child Kazran hug each other, isn't that supposed to cause some sort of damaging paradox?
-So in fifty years or however long it's been, the flying shark never digested the other half of the sonic screwdiver? What, is taking a shit some sort of great event for these creatures that happens rarely in incredibly long (for a shark) life spans?
-How did the Doctor and child Kazran take that webcam with them everywhere they went?
Still, a fun episode and decent enough. I wouldn't call it a favourite, but it was acceptable enough and meets with all my standards of entertainment. Can't wait for the new season.
The Trek style starship bridge was awesome and the Trek XI style lens flares going off every 15 seconds were hilarious.
Nitpick time (and I haven't bothered to read this thread, so don't get upset if someone else has already brought these up):
-When elderly Kazran and child Kazran hug each other, isn't that supposed to cause some sort of damaging paradox?
-So in fifty years or however long it's been, the flying shark never digested the other half of the sonic screwdiver? What, is taking a shit some sort of great event for these creatures that happens rarely in incredibly long (for a shark) life spans?
-How did the Doctor and child Kazran take that webcam with them everywhere they went?
Still, a fun episode and decent enough. I wouldn't call it a favourite, but it was acceptable enough and meets with all my standards of entertainment. Can't wait for the new season.
Deares Wormhole, allow me to address each of your concerns:
He wrote it backwards.
Paradoxes yield Reapers. Reapers are fleshy, flying bats. Also flying are sky sharks that live in the sky. Sky sharks are bigger than Reapers. Therefore, sky sharks ate the Reapers. No Reapers means no paradox. Problem solved!
Maybe the screwdriver is lodged into the rows and rows of shark teeth? *shrug*
Cambot was on loan from the Satellite of Love.
He wrote it backwards.
Paradoxes yield Reapers. Reapers are fleshy, flying bats. Also flying are sky sharks that live in the sky. Sky sharks are bigger than Reapers. Therefore, sky sharks ate the Reapers. No Reapers means no paradox. Problem solved!
Maybe the screwdriver is lodged into the rows and rows of shark teeth? *shrug*
Cambot was on loan from the Satellite of Love.
Only if the writers feel like it.
Moffat actually embraces time travel as a plot element - which is kind of funny, in that DW very rarely makes use of the logical incongruities of time travel as plot points.
Not me.
I guess it depends on what you're comparing it against - all of DW since the revival in 2005 is so different from oldWho that I don't have any trouble seeing it as a continuum and all of it good. I like Davies' version a lot, but I'm not having any trouble at all liking Moffat's writing a little better in most respects. I'm just unimpressed by Eleven.
I guess it depends on what you're comparing it against - all of DW since the revival in 2005 is so different from oldWho that I don't have any trouble seeing it as a continuum and all of it good. I like Davies' version a lot, but I'm not having any trouble at all liking Moffat's writing a little better in most respects. I'm just unimpressed by Eleven.
I don't think that either. I just think these are two very different attempts at writing Doctor Who and that Moffat wanted a completely new look for his Doctor right down to the episodes themselves.
So, I have to ask.
Did the Doctor have more adventures with Kazran and Abigail than he did with, say, Martha Jones? To judge by Kazran's collected photographs and mementos, they were two of his longest-standing companions, even if they fit all of those adventures into seven days.
Did the Doctor have more adventures with Kazran and Abigail than he did with, say, Martha Jones? To judge by Kazran's collected photographs and mementos, they were two of his longest-standing companions, even if they fit all of those adventures into seven days.
Well, there's not much indication from the photos that his trips with Kazran and Abigail were particularly eventful (aside from snogging famous movie stars). A lot of harmless sightseeing. If they ever run out of crazy ideas maybe nuWho can devote a season to "the most boring Doctor adventures ever."
Well, it was still only seven days. Heck, not even seven full days. They went home to bed (or freezer) at the end of each trip. Martha was probably with the Doctor for more than a week just in her "one trip" that took up the first five episodes. Never mind the three months as John Smith, or all the time they spent cooling their heels in 1969.
Not to mention the Lost Year...
Now that you're saying this, I'm realizing this might be my biggest problem. Whatever your opinion of RTD's run, it did tend to follow some very basic rules. You can't change the timeline. what happened happened. If you attempt to change the timeline, there are terrible consequences (Father's Day), or it will find a way to steer events back on course (Waters of Mars).
Now we have Moffat and Smith who can re-write time without even breaking a sweat. It bothers me. The rules have changed, and it just seems lazy.
Except that's not true. RTD's Doctors changed history all the time (overthrowing Harriet Jones, for instance). It's like the Tenth Doctor said in "The Fires of Pompeii" -- he knows which parts of time can change and be re-written safely and which cannot, because he has special Time Lord-y senses.
It's been a while since I've seen that episode, but how was overthrowing Harriet Jones changing history? Was there some original timeline where she remained Prime Minister for a longer time? I just assumed that the Doctor had always been the one to remove her from office.
I don't buy into his "Time Lordy senses." Even the Tenth Doctor admitted that his "fixed moment in time" theory was in fact just a theory. He had no proof.
Yes, the Doctor is a master of time and space, and he has some awesome powers at his disposal. But I feel like if he's going to re-write time, it needs to be a big fucking deal, not just something he can randomly do on a whim. It makes it too easy.
Plus, I feel like it completely negates everything he learned in "The Waters of Mars." He can't just change history because he feels like it. "The Time Lord Victorious is wrong."
