Surely the alternate timeline begins before Nero arrives?

[Nerys Myk]

But that doesn't mean you were born in all those places. Home is where the heart is, The family farm in Iowa may be "home" but he may have been born anywhere else. Maybe he was born on Tarsus IV and moved to Iowa after the massacre. Home would be the place where he feels comfortable and safe.

The point is we don't KNOW that Kirk was born in Iowa and we don't know the Kevlin was en route to Earth.

Like I said, the simplest solution is usally the best. So I'm going with being "from Iowa" means Kirk was born there. And the Kelvin was headed back to Earth so Jimmy could be born in George's home planet/country/state/town.

Me, I'm from Georgia but raised in Japan, Texas and California.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Kirk Prime was likely born in Iowa.

The Kelvin was diverted to the Lighning Storm in space, presumably on-or-near the Klingon border, which changed his birth place.

Kirk in the Alternate reality may have been born premature, perhaps with the stress of the attack countering the effects of an inhibitor.

The time from that point on the Klongon border to earth, or how far premature Kirk's birth in the movie was, is undetermined and subject to speculation.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I say again that there is NO indication that the Kelvin was headed to Earth. For all we know it was headed away from Earth on a mapping/survey mission,

 

[Dukhat]

I say again that there is NO indication that the Kelvin was headed to Earth. For all we know it was headed away from Earth on a mapping/survey mission,

The question is...does this really, really matter? Apparently to some people, it does. Apparently it means so much to them that they feel that it's some kind of flimsy justification that the beginning of Star Trek '09 takes place in some different universe, even though there's no real, solid evidence for that feeling, and that the movie really wouldn't make much sense if it was, and the writers of the film explicitly stated that it's the same universe. But hey, if it makes being able to sleep at night all that much better for you, by all means, think whatever you want.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Not at all. I just don't see why you have to read more into it that is on the screen.

In TVH Sulu says "I was born there" as they approach San Francisco. That's a fact.

In the same movie Kirk says "I'm from Iowa", Not the same thing.

The writers also said (yes, I'm going there again ) that the Delta Vega in the Vulcan system is the same one as in WNMHGB. That doesn't make it so. Writers intent and $2 will get you a large coffee and a muffin.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Did they? All I recall them saying is that they used the name as a nod and a wink to the fans. (forgetting that fans are way too anal.)

"I'm from Iowa" is ambiguous. It can mean he was born and raised there or that he lived there for most of his pre-Starfleet life.

The reality is that Kirk is a fictional character. There are large gaps in his "biography", so speculation is all we have. And there is fun and tradition in doing so.

 

[M'Sharak]

Did they? All I recall them saying is that they used the name as a nod and a wink to the fans. (forgetting that fans are way too anal.)

From the interview here:

TrekMovie: For the Trek fans, this film includes many little references. For example you have Kirk dropped off on the planet Delta Vega, which was seen in second Star Trek pilot. It is a cool reference, but didn’t you also fudge canon by ignoring that Delta Vega was way out next to the galactic barrier.


Orci: True. Yeah we did. We moved the planet to suit our purposes. The familiarity of the name seemed more important as an Easter egg, than a new name with no importance.

So yeah, it's a nod and a wink, but he also says they "moved the planet". YMMV.

 

[T'Girl]

The Kelvin was diverted to the Lighning Storm in space, presumably on-or-near the Klingon border, which changed his birth place.

In term of the Kelvin being diverted to the storm, that isn't my impression. I just rewatched the opening sequence.

It's the Kelvin which was contacting Starfleet, not the other way around. The first scene seem to have the storm appearing in the immediately vicinity of the Kelvin, with the ship responding of it's own accord. And if you can accept that Captain Robau would have been called to the bridge as soon as the Kelvin detected the storm, then thing happen very quickly. From the time the storm showed on sensors to the time Robau walked on to the bridge would have been what? A couple or three minutes tops.

Kirk in the Alternate reality may have been born premature, perhaps with the stress of the attack ...

ROBAU: If I don't report in fifteen minutes, evacuate the crew.

Captain Robau said this to George Kirk within minutes of the Narada's attack, if Robau is then murdered less than fifteen minute after that order to Kirk, that's not much time for Winona to be in final stage labour. But plenty of time if she were already in labour prior to the attack. Medical personnel conducted Winona to the evacuation shuttle because she was already in their hands and had been for hours.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Did they? All I recall them saying is that they used the name as a nod and a wink to the fans. (forgetting that fans are way too anal.)

From the interview here:

TrekMovie: For the Trek fans, this film includes many little references. For example you have Kirk dropped off on the planet Delta Vega, which was seen in second Star Trek pilot. It is a cool reference, but didn’t you also fudge canon by ignoring that Delta Vega was way out next to the galactic barrier.


Orci: True. Yeah we did. We moved the planet to suit our purposes. The familiarity of the name seemed more important as an Easter egg, than a new name with no importance.

So yeah, it's a nod and a wink, but he also says they "moved the planet". YMMV.

Yes. Moving The Planet FIGURATIVELY.

If we asked further, it is pretty likely they'd simply say "How do we know there isn't more than one Delta Vega?"

 

[OneBuckFilms]

The Kelvin was diverted to the Lighning Storm in space, presumably on-or-near the Klingon border, which changed his birth place.

In term of the Kelvin being diverted to the storm, that isn't my impression. I just rewatched the opening sequence.

It's the Kelvin which was contacting Starfleet, not the other way around. The first scene seem to have the storm appearing in the immediately vicinity of the Kelvin, with the ship responding of it's own accord. And if you can accept that Captain Robau would have been called to the bridge as soon as the Kelvin detected the storm, then thing happen very quickly. From the time the storm showed on sensors to the time Robau walked on to the bridge would have been what? A couple or three minutes tops.

Kirk in the Alternate reality may have been born premature, perhaps with the stress of the attack ...

ROBAU: If I don't report in fifteen minutes, evacuate the crew.

Captain Robau said this to George Kirk within minutes of the Narada's attack, if Robau is then murdered less than fifteen minute after that order to Kirk, that's not much time for Winona to be in final stage labour. But plenty of time if she were already in labour prior to the attack. Medical personnel conducted Winona to the evacuation shuttle because she was already in their hands and had been for hours.

So, if we assume an inhibitor was not used, then Kirk was always born on the Kelvin, and the ship simply headed home, where Winona and George would bring him and his older brother (presumably living on Earth with that crabby guy heard on the phone while his parents were off planet) together in the Prime Reality.

If we assume that some kind of Birth Inhibitor WAS applied, and Kirk's birth was premature to a presumed target date, then it is possible the inhibitor involved was not that great, easily canceled out by adrenaline.

It would then depend on the properties of the birth inhibiting method, and it's fallibility.

 

[Ovation]

Or we could go with "from Iowa" NOT being equal to "born in Iowa". My mother was born in Sherbrooke, QC. However, to anyone who might ask her "Where are you from?", she answers "Stanhope, QC" (the town in which she was raised). Sherbrooke is about 50km from Stanhope (and back in the late 30s, was probably nearly 10km farther--and a world away to my grandfather who drove a horse and buggy).

It is not at all inconsistent for Kirk to say "I'm from Iowa" without having been born there.

Just a thought.

 

[T'Girl]

For example you have Kirk dropped off on the planet Delta Vega

We've heard examples of Vulcan namings through-out the various series and movies, Spock was left on a body with a breathable atmosphere within watching distance of Vulcan itself. Delta Vega just doesn't sound like a Vulcan name.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^So what? We saw in Enterprise that Vulcans and Andorians have different names for the same world, why can't humans and Vulcans? Remember Spock's unpronouncable first name?

More to the point, does it really matter?

 

[BillJ]

Delta Vega breaks continuity, there really isn't to many ways around it without finessing it. Which apparently Christopher Bennett does in his canceled Abramsverse novel, but I won't steal his thunder in case it eventually does see the light of day.

Kirk: Earth bases which were only days away are now years in the distance.

Now, if Vulcan is in the same system as Delta Vega there would be no issue with the Enterprise being damaged.

Kirk being born on the Kelvin doesn't break anything in continuity that I'm aware of. Both times he mentions Iowa, he only mentions that he is from there... not born. Come to think of it... both times he mentions Iowa he is talking to a 20th century woman.

Taylor: Where are you from?

Kirk: Well I've lived for a long time in Iowa (sips beer), but I was born on the Starship Kelvin in the year 2233.

Taylor: I have to go to the bathroom... (Taylor gets up to leave)

Next scene we see Kirk sitting in a mental hospital.

No harm... no foul.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^I liked Christopher's To Seek A Newer World Delta Vega rationalization too - but I'm perfectly happy with "It's another planet with the name Delta Vega" - there are so many recycled town and city names on Earth today, it's not hard to imagine similar on a galactic scale in a Federation of 130 member planets and 700 colonies.

I recall the old novel Spock's World mentioning that almost every alien species' homeworld name translated as "Earth"...

 

[BillJ]

^I liked Christopher's To Seek A Newer World Delta Vega rationalization too - but I'm perfectly happy with "It's another planet with the name Delta Vega" - there are so many recycled town and city names on Earth today, it's not hard to imagine similar on a galactic scale in a Federation of 130 member planets and 700 colonies.

I recall the old novel Spock's World mentioning that almost every alien species' homeworld name translated as "Earth"...

My problem is just that it comes off as 'too cute' a reference and kinda shoots a hole in the stories credibility.

Kirk maroons Gary Mitchell on Delta Vega.
Spock maroons Kirk on another Delta Vega.

Star Trek as a whole was already suffering from 'small universe syndrome' prior to this and the film just continued the trend.

 

[Dukhat]

My problem is just that it comes off as 'too cute' a reference and kinda shoots a hole in the stories credibility.

Kirk maroons Gary Mitchell on Delta Vega.
Spock maroons Kirk on another Delta Vega.

Star Trek as a whole was already suffering from 'small universe syndrome' prior to this and the film just continued the trend.

Well, then why don't you just pretend that this Delta Vega isn't the same planet as the other Delta Vega? Or better yet, just like the tons of people who went to see the movie who weren't anal-retentive Star Trek fans, just not give a crap about the planet's name? Hell, I am an anal-retentive Star Trek fan, and I didn't give a crap about the planet's name, the brewery engineering room, or any other insignificant detail that people here seem to obsess over ad nauseum.

 

[BillJ]

My problem is just that it comes off as 'too cute' a reference and kinda shoots a hole in the stories credibility.

Kirk maroons Gary Mitchell on Delta Vega.
Spock maroons Kirk on another Delta Vega.

Star Trek as a whole was already suffering from 'small universe syndrome' prior to this and the film just continued the trend.

Well, then why don't you just pretend that this Delta Vega isn't the same planet as the other Delta Vega? Or better yet, just like the tons of people who went to see the movie who weren't anal-retentive Star Trek fans, just not give a crap about the planet's name? Hell, I am an anal-retentive Star Trek fan, and I didn't give a crap about the planet's name, the brewery engineering room, or any other insignificant detail that people here seem to obsess over ad nauseum.

I always love this reaction from fans of this film whenever someone pokes a hole in it. I gave props to Christopher Bennett for coming up with a serviceable 'in-universe' explanation for the name.

I'll go ahead and apologize for the fact that 'small universe syndrome' bothers me. This is a film that is crammed full of it. Outside the 'red matter' plot macguffin, there is absolutely nothing new in it. Actually, 'red matter' is just the Genesis Device and thalaron radiation with a different color paint.

There are elements of this film that I love (mainly the cast), but the film is about as fresh as a gallon of milk 30 days past its expiration date.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It depends how you define "fresh". The story recycled many old Trek staples, but the execution of the film was unlike any prior Star Trek. It was, IMO, a fresh look at Star Trek's universe (and I'm not talking about in-universe universes!), as seen through the eyes of a different creative team. What was old and tired was new and exciting again. YMMV.

 

[BillJ]

It depends how you define "fresh". The story recycled many old Trek staples, but the execution of the film was unlike any prior Star Trek. It was, IMO, a fresh look at Star Trek's universe (and I'm not talking about in-universe universes!), as seen through the eyes of a different creative team. What was old and tired was new and exciting again. YMMV.

You can go overboard with too many 'wink-wink' and 'nudge-nudge' moments, which I think the writers' did in Star Trek 2009. Those moments magnified the fact that they were just going back over old territory.

Hopefully it is out of their collective systems now and we can get some fresh material going forward.