Santa's naughty and nice lists

[Nerys Ghemor]

I don't think I am going to teach any future children of mine to believe in Santa Claus as American culture regards him. I would rather teach them the history of St. Nicholas and explain where the tradition of gift-giving comes from and what it means. Some people have said this would make my kids "wet blankets" to the other kids, but too bad. As a Christian I'm not happy with what pop culture has made Christmas into, and I would rather my children be informed. I think they can enjoy gifts knowing full well they're from Mom and Dad.

The ironic thing is that the modern Christmas directly opposes the Christian doctrine of grace, which was the whole point of the birth of Christ.

Discipline can be maintained, but I want to do it in an honest way rather than blaming it on Santa Claus.

 

[Ashu]

When I asked my parents how Santa could possibly know whether I was being good or not, they came up with a more plausible explanation: they told Santa whether I was being naughty or nice.

It kind of backfired. My behavior got worse. But what did they expect? It's bound to be traumatizing when you find out your mom's a fucking stool pigeon.

Like you were ever on the nice list anyways

 

[Kestra]

I don't really see the problem. Gifts at Christmas (or any other holiday) weren't something I took for granted. They were gifts, afterall! I don't think I would actually want to take them away from children but I think the nice and naughty list is fine. It tells you you're not entitled to gifts at Christmas.

But surely you knew you'd get presents at Christmas? (Assuming your family followed that tradition) I understand what you mean about them being gifts and there for up to the giver what they give and to whom, but at Christmas you can't actually have been surprised every year by presents from your family.

I actually was pleasantly surprised every year that we got presents. I figured eventually my parents would think we were too old for it. Plus they had been known to cancel holiday events before if we were misbehaving!

 

[RJDiogenes]

Once I understood that presents came from my parents (which I did while still young, given that my parents never bothered to hide it overmuch, so probably around 5-6), we used to enter into a discussion quite early in the year as to that years' present-budget, to be subsequently divided as I saw fit between my birthday at the end of summer, and Christmas (I usually preferred to back-load it 2:1 towards Christmas, though in hindsight, this may not have been the shrewdest way to split it). The total would be dependent on what I got the previous year, though I learnt the benefits of indexation and other cost-of-living adjustments very, very quickly!

Once the total was agreed upon, I could start determing what presents I wanted and then put the contract out to tender (also known as telling mum which shops to call to see if it was available and at what price... ).

Let me guess: You asked for Excel.

 

[An Officer]

I really don't believe in upsetting children on special days of the year (you have all year round to discipline them, everybody deserves one day off ), they would have to be totally out of control before I would withhold pressies. Other days though, they're fair game.

 

[bluedana]

I think my kids understand that there is a difference between needs and wants. If they are incorrigible throughout the year, what is my incentive to do without something and use that money to get them something they want but don't need? Let's assume they all lose their minds in the run up to Christmas, and are just horrible. They will still get gifts -- it is in commemoration of the birth of Christ -- just not any sort of "Mom went out of her way to get the bike/game system/computer I really wanted" gifts. Rather, they'd get stuff they needed, like clothes or maybe books.

Their attitude shapes how I shop, not whether they get anything under the tree.

Also? I don't interfere with their belief in Santa -- it's quite pointless, since they get it from all other areas of their lives. I'm not going to tell my six year old that there's no such thing as Santa Claus (she wouldn't be able to process that, anyway). But I don't lie to them, either. We've talked about St. Nicholas and the origin of the modern gift giving tradition. But we always circle back to the inspiration for the practice of giving gifts and the reason we celebrate the day. Any point blank question about the myth of Santa Claus gets an agnostic answer: How does Santa get to all those houses in one night? Answer: I really couldn't tell you; I've never seen him do it.

 

[Satyrquaze]

So, the whole concept of Father Christmas keeping a list of which children are naughty and which children are nice... it bothers me.

Hey, at least you don't live in the Netherlands!

 

[Joshua Howard]

The whole point is that Santa rewards nice behavior and provides coal in exchange for naughtiness. It is a legend, and if you tell your kids that it is true, that is entirely your affair. As a legend, however, it is nothing more than a story which has been passed along with fond implications.

Personally, I find the idea of teaching children that Santa is difinitively real to be rather absurd. I really enjoy the Santa Claus tradition personally, and in a certain sense Santa is real - (in a "Yes Virginia, There is a Santa Claus" kind of way) - but Santa should be taught, as any mythology should be, as just that.

I should hope that Santa might be to a child an inspiration for nobler deeds and actions, allegorized in a simple and understandable way. In any case, it has nothing to do with parents withholding gifts; because if a child is old enough to know that the gifts are withheld by a parent rather than Santa, then the child is also old enough to know that Santa is not a real person. There is no case here to be made.

 

[trampledamage]

Also? I don't interfere with their belief in Santa -- it's quite pointless, since they get it from all other areas of their lives. I'm not going to tell my six year old that there's no such thing as Santa Claus (she wouldn't be able to process that, anyway). But I don't lie to them, either. We've talked about St. Nicholas and the origin of the modern gift giving tradition. But we always circle back to the inspiration for the practice of giving gifts and the reason we celebrate the day. Any point blank question about the myth of Santa Claus gets an agnostic answer: How does Santa get to all those houses in one night? Answer: I really couldn't tell you; I've never seen him do it.

This is the approach I'm taking as well. My oldest is only just six so I figure so much of what is make-believe seems real to her right now, why single out Santa for harsh treatment - although we don't do letters to Santa or anything like that, and the big presents come from family, the kids get small "Santa presents" of stuff I think they'll like, not what they've asked for.

And, yes I admit I'm looking forward to introducing them to the NORAD Santa Tracker

I really don't believe in upsetting children on special days of the year (you have all year round to discipline them, everybody deserves one day off ), they would have to be totally out of control before I would withhold pressies. Other days though, they're fair game.

Yeah me too. Maybe that's why I don't like the idea of a threat to take away their Christmas presents. I don't buy them much by way of toys during the year - it's all saved up for what they really want for Christmas and birthday, so they would have to be really obnoxious to lose that privilege.

Actually, thinking about it, I also have a problem with the idea that it's Santa's list, not mine - I'll decide whether my kids have been good all year, thank you!

I don't really see the problem. Gifts at Christmas (or any other holiday) weren't something I took for granted. They were gifts, afterall! I don't think I would actually want to take them away from children but I think the nice and naughty list is fine. It tells you you're not entitled to gifts at Christmas.

But surely you knew you'd get presents at Christmas? (Assuming your family followed that tradition) I understand what you mean about them being gifts and there for up to the giver what they give and to whom, but at Christmas you can't actually have been surprised every year by presents from your family.

I actually was pleasantly surprised every year that we got presents. I figured eventually my parents would think we were too old for it. Plus they had been known to cancel holiday events before if we were misbehaving!

I'm from a family that still does presents under the tree and I'm 39

I do remember one year my mum cancelled a trip to Warwick Castle because someone had drawn on the carpet. Since it wasn't me, I still hold a grudge!

 

[trekkiedane]

So, the whole concept of Father Christmas keeping a list of which children are naughty and which children are nice... it bothers me. Probably more than it should, I guess, but I won't even let my kids comment on hoping to be on the nice list because I don't think it sends a good message about Christmas (the non-religious present-giving side of the holiday).

ECHELON are the ones doing the lists these days
and the Julemand (or whatever he's called in your neck of the world) apparently still has parts of him originating from different cultural settings; at least he doesn't still give coal (or beatings!!!) to bad kids.

And do your kids/did you as a child expect Father Christmas to bring you everything you asked for?

That whole thing seriously needs a disclaimer! Perhaps something like this:

The ideas of "good" and "bad" are subject to change without further notice. [Santa Inc.] is not responsible for the fulfilment of dreams or complete delivery of gifts listed on 'wish lists'. "Wish lists" are treated as inspirational, not absolutes.

ETA:

/.../ stories about her daughter (about 10 ish). She was turning into a real brat during the holidays. That Christmas break, she caught the daughter snooping around the house, /.../

One time, on x-mas morning (remember: in these parts that is the day after you get your gifts!) during breakfast in the family my sister said something like this: "then what about those packets in the closet?" -the parents had no clue what she was talking about and asked her to show them... surely enough she had found several (heavy'ish) cardboard boxes in the bottom of one of mums closets!

After mum had stopped laughing she -through her tears of laughter- could tell us that it was the last many years worth of yearbooks from the company she worked for!

The next year I hid the presents for my sister in her closet -and she didn't know till we were on our way to celebrate x-mas-eve and I retrieved them from that hiding-place.

As a child, the story made me feel as if I was being judged by an all-knowing higher being. And since what was at stake was play things, this was comparable to putting the fear of god into me.

 

[Holdfast]

Once I understood that presents came from my parents (which I did while still young, given that my parents never bothered to hide it overmuch, so probably around 5-6), we used to enter into a discussion quite early in the year as to that years' present-budget, to be subsequently divided as I saw fit between my birthday at the end of summer, and Christmas (I usually preferred to back-load it 2:1 towards Christmas, though in hindsight, this may not have been the shrewdest way to split it). The total would be dependent on what I got the previous year, though I learnt the benefits of indexation and other cost-of-living adjustments very, very quickly!

Once the total was agreed upon, I could start determing what presents I wanted and then put the contract out to tender (also known as telling mum which shops to call to see if it was available and at what price... ).

Let me guess: You asked for Excel.

Quicken.

 

[trampledamage]

Once I understood that presents came from my parents (which I did while still young, given that my parents never bothered to hide it overmuch, so probably around 5-6), we used to enter into a discussion quite early in the year as to that years' present-budget, to be subsequently divided as I saw fit between my birthday at the end of summer, and Christmas (I usually preferred to back-load it 2:1 towards Christmas, though in hindsight, this may not have been the shrewdest way to split it). The total would be dependent on what I got the previous year, though I learnt the benefits of indexation and other cost-of-living adjustments very, very quickly!

Once the total was agreed upon, I could start determing what presents I wanted and then put the contract out to tender (also known as telling mum which shops to call to see if it was available and at what price... ).

Let me guess: You asked for Excel.

Quicken.

I can see little miss trampledamage approving of this method of organising present buying! I shall have to suggest it next year

 

[Holdfast]

Let me guess: You asked for Excel.

Quicken.

I can see little miss trampledamage approving of this method of organising present buying! I shall have to suggest it next year

My goodness, if she's anywhere near as controlling and demanding as I was as a kid, you have my deepest sympathies.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

As a Christian I'm not happy with what pop culture has made Christmas into...

The ironic thing is that the modern Christmas directly opposes the Christian doctrine of grace, which was the whole point of the birth of Christ.

Excellent point, Nerys Ghemor.

 

[Kestra]

I'm from a family that still does presents under the tree and I'm 39

I'm a little different because my parents basically did Christmas just so we wouldn't feel left out while we were young. We knew it would stop eventually, but we had plenty of other holidays with presents so it wasn't a big deal. I do Christmas with my in-laws now though, and love it!

 

[Random_Spock]

How do all of you (either as parents or when you were kids with your parents) handle the naughty and nice list concept?

My mom just wouldn't get me anything per say if I was misbehaving that year. For the most part I was a pretty good kid... so there was no real need for my mom to have the whole naughty and nice list concept.

Does anyone actually follow through with the threat of no presents if the kid is naughty?

See above answer.

And do your kids/did you as a child expect Father Christmas to bring you everything you asked for?

To a point.

 

[trampledamage]

I'm from a family that still does presents under the tree and I'm 39

I'm a little different because my parents basically did Christmas just so we wouldn't feel left out while we were young. We knew it would stop eventually, but we had plenty of other holidays with presents so it wasn't a big deal. I do Christmas with my in-laws now though, and love it!

Now I'm curious What other holidays do you celebrate with presents? I only have Christmas and birthday

 

[auntiehill]

^I guess you could count Easter baskets as presents.


But my family stopped doing Easter celebrations when I was 10.

 

[Kestra]

Yeah, we did Easter baskets when we were young. But our big holiday with presents has always been Diwali. There are one or two other Indian holidays where my siblings and I would exchange presents as well. I still remember the year my brother got me a swingset for my dolls.

 

[Mary Ann]

When my kids were younger (they're 13, 12 and 10) and our house looked like a Toys R Us warehouse I told the kids that they would only get more toys if they sorted out some of their toys they no longer wanted. When they still believed in Santa Claus they knew that grownups gave them presents, too, so we'd make a point of all of us dropping off any gently-used toys at charity shops, and I explained how families who weren't as lucky as we were would be able to buy their children the toys these toys because not everyone could afford new toys. My kids not only learned how lucky they were but also how easy and satisfying it is to help others. To this day my kids will give me stuff to "put in the next charity bag".