The Federations Need For Multiple Ship Classes

[Satyrquaze]

I think Chaos Descending and Lorna pushed it on occasion.

But I'm not here to rush to anyone's rescue, between the two comments in a row it struck me as kicking someone while they were down and less than civil.

That's just me.

 

[Lorna]

If she can't handle the fact that people will disagree with her, then why put forward ideas for discussion in a public forum

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me, I was just saying that this thread is taking up a lot of my time because I've got so many people replying to me and therefore I've got so many people to reply to.

This discussion is not the same for me as it is for you. You're posting responses to just me along with 9 other people, so I've got 10 people to reply to whereas everyone else only has me to reply to. It's a lot harder for me to have this discussion as a result.

This does not mean I have a problem with people disagreeing with me.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I think Chaos Descending and Lorna pushed it on occasion.

Yup, you're right. I didn't push it intentionally (and I'm sorry I did it at all), but at a certain point I just got to where I was thinking, "Jeez, really? Are you kidding me?"

 

[Lorna]

I'm going to put together one final post of my opinions and then I'm going to call it a day.

 

[The_Baroness]

If she can't handle the fact that people will disagree with her, then why put forward ideas for discussion in a public forum

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me, I was just saying that this thread is taking up a lot of my time because I've got so many people replying to me and therefore I've got so many people to reply to.

This discussion is not the same for me as it is for you. You're posting responses to just me along with 9 other people, so I've got 10 people to reply to whereas everyone else only has me to reply to. It's a lot harder for me to have this discussion as a result.

This does not mean I have a problem with people disagreeing with me.

Then I apologise for thinking that you did.

However, we may only be countering your views (for the most part) but we do all need to read and consider everyone elses comments before posting too.

 

[The_Baroness]

But I'm not here to rush to anyone's rescue, between the two comments in a row it struck me as kicking someone while they were down and less than civil.

That's just me.

I don't think it was intended that way. In my case, the previous post went up while I was typing mine.

 

[Satyrquaze]

^ Yeah it's cool, I very possibly over-reacted anyway.

 

[sojourner]

I think we can all say that both standardization and specialization have their places in Starfleet - as long as both are used in moderation.

 

[Uncle Sol]

I think we can all say that both standardization and specialization have their places in Starfleet - as long as both are used in moderation.

While very true, there are so many obvious flaws to Lorna's theory that make it not work.

The scaling issue, the tactical disadvantages, technological differences, that a single 'Multiclass' ship would not be able to solve.

Lorna, you've started two threads on this topic, and both times people have highlighted areas where your idea comes short. I hope you don't think we are just ganging up on you. You seem to feel very strongly that this theory works. I suggest taking what we've given you and rework your concept.

 

[sojourner]

^Yea, somehow I think you missed the "as long as both are used in moderation" part.

Maybe have a class of ship that with just 2 types of module, a war module and a peace module. In times of relative peace the ships would have a module that contains science labs and civilian quarters and such. In times of war these ships would go to the nearest starbase, drop off the civilians and scientists in one fell swoop and mount a war module that contains additional heavy weapons, power, and armor. You wouldn't want to build your entire fleet with these ships, but they would definitely be an asset.

 

[Expendable]

^Yea, somehow I think you missed the "as long as both are used in moderation" part.

Maybe have a class of ship that with just 2 types of module, a war module and a peace module. In times of relative peace the ships would have a module that contains science labs and civilian quarters and such. In times of war these ships would go to the nearest starbase, drop off the civilians and scientists in one fell swoop and mount a war module that contains additional heavy weapons, power, and armor. You wouldn't want to build your entire fleet with these ships, but they would definitely be an asset.

These are called Nebula class starships.

 

[Andymator]

I think we can all say that both standardization and specialization have their places in Starfleet - as long as both are used in moderation.

Absolutely.

 

[Vanyel]

^Yea, somehow I think you missed the "as long as both are used in moderation" part.

Maybe have a class of ship that with just 2 types of module, a war module and a peace module. In times of relative peace the ships would have a module that contains science labs and civilian quarters and such. In times of war these ships would go to the nearest starbase, drop off the civilians and scientists in one fell swoop and mount a war module that contains additional heavy weapons, power, and armor. You wouldn't want to build your entire fleet with these ships, but they would definitely be an asset.

These are called Nebula class starships.

Yup.

 

[Leroy]

I've seen speculation on other forums that suggest there might be somekind of starfleet starship design bureau that in order to justify its existence churns out ship classes no matter if they are useful or even good. That might explain all the useless classes like the godawful DS9 technical manual kitbashes or some of the junk from the BOBW Wolf 359 graveyard scene.

 

[Sci]

I've seen speculation on other forums that suggest there might be somekind of starfleet starship design bureau that in order to justify its existence churns out ship classes no matter if they are useful or even good. That might explain all the useless classes like the godawful DS9 technical manual kitbashes or some of the junk from the BOBW Wolf 359 graveyard scene.

The DS9 kitbashes were already explained in the DS9 Technical Manual: They were created for the sole purpose of having as many ships as possible out there on the battlefield, nothing more.

 

[Deks]

I've seen speculation on other forums that suggest there might be somekind of starfleet starship design bureau that in order to justify its existence churns out ship classes no matter if they are useful or even good. That might explain all the useless classes like the godawful DS9 technical manual kitbashes or some of the junk from the BOBW Wolf 359 graveyard scene.

The DS9 kitbashes were already explained in the DS9 Technical Manual: They were created for the sole purpose of having as many ships as possible out there on the battlefield, nothing more.

Even though they appeared before the war?

Lol...
But seriously... how the heck do you mesh a Maqui raider with an Intrepid?
SF would have to construct the wings of the raider to be overly massive in contrast to the original design.
I don't really see any practical use of those designs to be honest.

We could easily claim that SF was experimenting with meshing designs of 2 pre-existing classes to see how they worked together.
It's possible the Yeager class as such never really reached full-scale production with but a handful being built overall.

The Nebula class on the other hand works a lot better.
It's just a Galaxy class with no neck

 

[Timo]

Regarding the kitbashes, the Maquis/Intrepid one is probably the easiest to swallow. The Maquis hull is, after all, just a generic box: there's no reason it couldn't be manufactured in any arbitrary scale. Indeed, we already see it appear in two different sizes, in the Maquis ships flown by Lieutenant Ro and Commander Chakotay, respectively.

The company that builds those ships that have the generic box shape for the stern and an iron or upturned spoon for the bow might well have been contracted to participate in building a companion design for the Intrepid, just like the Constitution class once had a companion design with a boxy aft hull. That companion design, too, had oversized impulse engines and drooping pylons...

The Constitution kitbash with the low-mounted nacelles is also fully to scale and as such plausible. The one with the F-14 hull for secondary hull, with two deflectors, suffers from having mismatched engines, while all the Excelsior-based kitbashes have a conflict between saucer scale and the scale of at least one other component (bridge, nacelles, torpedo arch). But we don't have to think that the Excelsior saucer only ever came in one size...

Really, I'd accept that F-14-hulled ship as an "in-universe kitbash" but keep the others as normally designed and procured classes.

It's possible the Yeager class as such never really reached full-scale production with but a handful being built overall.

We saw that class about as often as we did the Intrepid class... That is, if VOY counts as one appearance.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nardpuncher]

The real question si why does everyone else have so few types?

We get 2 real 24th century Romulan types, 2 Klingon, and 2 cardassian. A little variety would have been nice.

The FASA role-playing game had supplements with manuals for both Klingon ships and Romulan. Some really cool designs in there.

I agree with Lorna in many ways.
The universe wouldn't care if your ship is a battleship or a science ship, and in Star Trek the hero ship is always getting into trouble and somehow barely scratching their way out of it because the hero ship always seems to be a good jack of all trades type ship.

Imagine if you were posted to a beat up old Miranda class and your buddy got assigned to a Sovereign!

 

[Timo]

Just remember to take the camera team with ya, and your Miranda will go on to save the galaxy (and a couple of distressed Sovereigns on the side).

That the adversary cultures display only a few ship types could easily be attributed to there being a few "showcase" types that those cultures use for dealing with outsiders. We had no plot reason to see a Klingon transport ship before "Sons and Daughters", for example. And we still lack a plot reason for a Romulan transport, or a Ferengi tanker, or a Breen repair tender.

I'm rather happy with the current broad range of Klingon designs, and the Romulans and Cardassians are doing pretty well nowadays, too. I could have used more variety on the Ferengi, though, as they don't strike me as a group that would believe in standardization; it should be a point of prestige for a Ferengi to have a ship that is visibly bigger or sleeker or meaner than that of his competitor...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Avon]

I haven't checked this thread for a while.

Did Lorna give up on her plan to build a galaxy class-sized runabout?