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Surely the alternate timeline begins before Nero arrives?

I have the creators of the movie on my side
Gene Roddenberry said in the book The Making of Star Trek that Kirk was born in Iowa.

If you're going to place your faith in a Star Trek creator, why not pick Roddenberry? Who, again, stated that Jim Kirk was born in Iowa, not simply from there.

Winona did give birth prematurely, and that if they hadn't met the Narada ...
Shock or stress induced labour will result in a premature birth in six plus hours for a first child. Two or three hours (or more) for a subsequent pregnancy. Immediately after Robau's murder Winona was obviously in heavy labour, not early stages. Premature babies don't just fall out.

From the time of the Narada's attack until Winona gave birth didn't seem to be hours. Prior to the Narada attack, Winona was likely already in labour with a full term baby, aboard a ship near the Klingon border, not on Earth or in Iowa.

... regardless of what you personally consider "canon" or "official ...
Memory Alpha had this; The Star Trek canon is generally defined as all live-action television series and feature films released by Paramount Pictures. Strange, it doesn't seem to mention the personal opinions of some guy who worked on one of the eleven movies.

The whole point of the movie is that Spock Prime's actions changed history.
But didn't Prime Spock's appearance occur twenty-eight years into the movie? How did Spock change history, if anything he seem to be trying to alter events "back" toward what he remembers (or misremembers) from the prime universe.

:)
 
The only reason Kirk was born on the Kelvin is that the ship was sidetracked by Nero's incursion. If not for that George and Winona would been back on Earth and in Iowa for Jim birth.
 
Where does it say that the kelvin was on it's way to Earth? The only point we get as to course or destination is that they are near the Klingon border.
 
The only reason Kirk was born on the Kelvin is that the ship was sidetracked by Nero's incursion. If not for that George and Winona would been back on Earth and in Iowa for Jim birth.
George and Winona Kirk's official residence may have been in Iowa, and in cases where a child is born in space, the child might be registered as born in that location. I believe there is precedent for this in the maritime law of some countries. (But not, strangely enough, the contemporary U.S. - so take all of this as you will. ;))
 
Gene Roddenberry said in the book The Making of Star Trek that Kirk was born in Iowa.

If you're going to place your faith in a Star Trek creator, why not pick Roddenberry? Who, again, stated that Jim Kirk was born in Iowa, not simply from there.

Roddenberry's Kirk Prime was born in Iowa, not nuKirk. That was the point I was making before: in the original timeline the Kelvin could have been on it's way home to Earth, where Kirk could have been born then.

Shock or stress induced labour will result in a premature birth in six plus hours for a first child. Two or three hours (or more) for a subsequent pregnancy. Immediately after Robau's murder Winona was obviously in heavy labour, not early stages. Premature babies don't just fall out.
OK, fine, how about this? Maybe Winona didn't want to give birth on a starship, and the 23rd century doctors had a way of delaying the pregnancy until she got back to Earth such as stasis, which was then declared moot when the Narada attacked? You see, in science fiction there's a multitude of ways to explain shit like this.

Memory Alpha had this; The Star Trek canon is generally defined as all live-action television series and feature films released by Paramount Pictures. Strange, it doesn't seem to mention the personal opinions of some guy who worked on one of the eleven movies.
Some guy? It was the movie's writers, not some janitor cleaning the Paramount office toilets. What you're forgetting is that canon is also dictated by whoever is in charge and writing Star Trek at the time. In 1986 in Star Trek IV, Kirk makes an offhanded remark to Jillian that he was "from Iowa" (and according to you, Roddenberry meant him to be born there). In Star Trek '09, the script dictated that almost-born-Kirk is in a starship that's nowhere near Earth, let alone Iowa. So guess what? Kirk's line in STIV is now invalidated. That doesn't mean that it's an alternate universe, just that new information has superseded the old information. This happens is Star Trek (and any television show or movie) all the time.

But didn't Prime Spock's appearance occur twenty-eight years into the movie? How did Spock change history, if anything he seem to be trying to alter events "back" toward what he remembers (or misremembers) from the prime universe.
Spock changed history by inadvertently creating the black hole that sucked both him and Nero into the past. It was his fault that Nero was sucked back to 2233. The fact that Spock arrived decades later means nothing; he still arrived in the changed timeline he originally created. And where exactly in the movie did Spock try to alter events back to the original timeline?

As far as I'm concerned you can believe whatever you want about just what universe the movie started in. But Orci and Kurtzman state that it's the prime universe at the start of the film, and that's where old Spock is from too. And that's good enough for me, various insignificant nitpickings notwithstanding.
 
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Where does it say that the kelvin was on it's way to Earth? The only point we get as to course or destination is that they are near the Klingon border.

It doesn't, but its the most logical and simplest solution. (Occam Razor?) We know James Kirk was born in Iowa. We know Winona is pregnant and on the Kelvin. Therefore the Kelvin was headed to Earth until Nero showed up and changed the course of history.
 
Where does it say that the kelvin was on it's way to Earth? The only point we get as to course or destination is that they are near the Klingon border.

It doesn't, but its the most logical and simplest solution. (Occam Razor?) We know James Kirk was born in Iowa. We know Winona is pregnant and on the Kelvin. Therefore the Kelvin was headed to Earth until Nero showed up and changed the course of history.

No we don't. All we know is Kirk said "I'm from Iowa". I was born in Europe due to my dad being stationed overseas. I don't consider myself from Marville. I don't remember it at all as we moved back to Canada when I was eleven months old. I have never said "I'm from Marville" I do say I was born there.
 
FWIW, in the novelization, Winona was given an inhibitor that should have suppresed labour long enough for the Kelvin to reach Earth - but the stress of the Narada's attack meant they had to deliver in the shuttle. On Delta Vega, Spock Prime says "...you were born in the year twenty-two thirty-three in a farm in Iowa" to which Kirk retorts, "I was born on a ship"
 
FWIW, in the novelization, Winona was given an inhibitor that should have suppresed labour long enough for the Kelvin to reach Earth - but the stress of the Narada's attack meant they had to deliver in the shuttle. On Delta Vega, Spock Prime says "...you were born in the year twenty-two thirty-three in a farm in Iowa" to which Kirk retorts, "I was born on a ship"

Well spotted.

Interesting but odd about delaying the birth from the novel. I'd seen somewhere else that NuKirk was born in January based on the new stardates - it seems unlikely that labour would be delayed by 1-2 months. They'd never get her out of the shuttle bay doors.
 
It's gonna take more than William Shatner's birthday to convince me that Kirk Prime, the fictional character, was born in March. The Kelvin would have been speed-of-plot from Earth, so I'd guess the inhibitor would have only had to last a week, tops.
 
It's gonna take more than William Shatner's birthday to convince me that Kirk Prime, the fictional character, was born in March. The Kelvin would have been speed-of-plot from Earth, so I'd guess the inhibitor would have only had to last a week, tops.

I think his DOB has appeared on a computer screen somewhere. They did the same to Janice Rand in Flashback I think, thus aging the character by about 10 years from her unofficial age (a line that was edited out of the script for Miri).
 
I find it interesting that in Ryan Church's preproduction artwork, the Kelvin seems to be consistently labelled "Iowa". I wonder if this indicates the team knew about the inconsistency with Kirk's birthplace and originally planned to "retcon" the problem away by making Iowa a starship, not a state.
 
I find it interesting that in Ryan Church's preproduction artwork, the Kelvin seems to be consistently labelled "Iowa". I wonder if this indicates the team knew about the inconsistency with Kirk's birthplace and originally planned to "retcon" the problem away by making Iowa a starship, not a state.

I believe that was the intention, yes. Although naming the ship the "Iowa" just for that would have been all kinds of stupid.
 
Dukhat said:
But Orci and Kurtzman state that it's the prime universe at the start of the film, and that's where old Spock is from too. And that's good enough for me, various insignificant nitpickings notwithstanding.

If the Prime universe as depicted in STXI can be assumed to not actually be the Prime, then the same standard should be applicable to previous films in the series. Thus by extension we end up with each film in its own separate universe. This film should not be assigned the burden of somehow "proving" that it originates in the Prime continuity, given the fact that no sequel ( in this franchise or any other ) can really meet such a standard.
 
Where does it say that the kelvin was on it's way to Earth? The only point we get as to course or destination is that they are near the Klingon border.

It doesn't, but its the most logical and simplest solution. (Occam Razor?) We know James Kirk was born in Iowa. We know Winona is pregnant and on the Kelvin. Therefore the Kelvin was headed to Earth until Nero showed up and changed the course of history.

No we don't. All we know is Kirk said "I'm from Iowa". I was born in Europe due to my dad being stationed overseas. I don't consider myself from Marville. I don't remember it at all as we moved back to Canada when I was eleven months old. I have never said "I'm from Marville" I do say I was born there.
Close enough to count. Though feel free to split all the hairs you like.

Being an Air Force brat myself I'm "from" a lot of places, too: Georgia, Japan, Texas and California.
 
But that doesn't mean you were born in all those places. Home is where the heart is, The family farm in Iowa may be "home" but he may have been born anywhere else. Maybe he was born on Tarsus IV and moved to Iowa after the massacre. Home would be the place where he feels comfortable and safe.

The point is we don't KNOW that Kirk was born in Iowa and we don't know the Kevlin was en route to Earth.
 
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