The Turok-Han if I recall correctly were supposed to be like pure blood vampires or something like that. Created from pure demon.
Buffyverse question about demons and dinosaurs
- Thread starter EJA
- Start date
Exactly.
The Turok-Han were specifically identified as being ancient vampires, more powerful than the modern variety. An analogy was that the Turok-Han ubervamp was to the human-form vampire as Neanderthals were to modern humans.
As for the Master, there was some resemblance, sure, but the Master was still just a lesser, human-form vampire, susceptible to all the same weaknesses that others of his ilk have to fear. For example, crosses are no impediment to Turok-Han; holy water barely affects them; and they are able to enter human residences without an invitation. The Master's appearance came due to his advanced age, being over six hundred years old.
Wasn't the Master older than that? I thought it was over 1000 years of something like that. I don't know, 600 years doesn't seem that impressive, since Darla was over 400 years old. And she looked nothing like that, while the Master looked the same in 1760, when he would have been just 300 years old if you are right.
While no specific age for the Master was given he is supposed to be as was stated before over 600 years old. Age doesn't really matter, power does and the Master had culminated some it would seem prior to the start of season one. The Master also returns during the "Last Gleaming" arc (Buffy season eight's finale).
Good point. The "600 years old" bit came from Joss's script for "Welcome to the Hellmouth," but you're right - he would have to be much older than that in order to have a demonic visage.
I don't recall anyone saying that the Master was supposed to be the oldest vampire in existence. What episode is this from?
Oh, and Illyria did not have armies of Turok-han; that was the First Evil.
Incidentally, what are the Season Eight comics like? I've not really been following them, but to be honest, from what I've heard, they sound a bit stupid IMO.
Oh, and Illyria did not have armies of Turok-han; that was the First Evil.
Incidentally, what are the Season Eight comics like? I've not really been following them, but to be honest, from what I've heard, they sound a bit stupid IMO.
Kakistos himself was beginning to change in appearance towards a more 'demonic' form, with his horns and hooves. Perhaps it's just a feature of vampires that, after millenia of a demon inhabiting a body, that body begins to resemble the demons of old. In the Master's case, he started to resemble the Turok-Han.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
It's an understandable assumption to make, though you're right - we know Illyria had an army, but we don't know what (demons or vampires) comprised that army.
I've only read through the "Wolves at the Gate" arc (the third arc, issues #11-15), but I thought that it was quite good through at least that point. I've read only one issue of Angel: After the Fall, so I can't speak on that or any of the other post-season five Angel mini-series.
The season eight comics are fantastic...and fans are still reeling from a major character death in the last issue, and EJA how do they sound "stupid"? I'm curious since you've not read them.
The comics are not stupid, but I'm not sure how successful they are in conveying some of the ideas they seem to be trying to convey, and the plot is a bit convoluted and OTT, particularly in the last few issues. Plus, it is really annoying when the main character spends several crucial issues under a magical influence, and
another major character is under the same influence and then gets semi-possessed later and kills another major character in that state (and tries to kill another), and you're left with the ambiguity of just how much he was himself throughout that. Not to mention the whole 'set up for a date rape by the universe' thing and the whole 'sex that causes world destruction' thing. And it's even more annoying when editor Scott Allie wants to have his cake and eat it by saying that Buffy was drugged but still had responsibility for her actions, and chickens out from commenting on the whole compromised consent issue, because that would mean calling it a rape. Well, you know what, when someone slips you a drug that you never intended to take, in order for you to be more willing to have sex with your ex-boyfriend, that's the very definition of date rape. 
Plus you have Dawn's arc in the first half of the season, which is pretty much about her being literally punished for having sex. Really, all this stuff makes me happy that
there will be no more magic
#40 is called "Coda", is written by Joss Whedon, and is supposed to be a quiet "Restless" type finale that deals with character stuff and the consequences of the events. I'm looking forward to that. This season, the things I've enjoyed the most were side stories and character moments, dreams, fantasies, foreshadowing, stuff like that, especially issues written by Joss. The writing of writers not connected to the show, like Allie or Meltzer, doesn't have what it takes and doesn't remind me of the show, and Allie's issues in particular have been all about plot, plot, plot. Season 9 is supposed to be "return to the basics" with more focus on characters, which sounds really good after all the OTT craziness of S8, especially its latter part.
I know they're not stupid and as for how they've managed to conveyed the ideas...I think they've done pretty well. Obviously having a medium like a comic book allows for a little more leeway in terms of plausibility. I think if Joss was actually doing this live action a lot of the more crazy stuff would have been trimmed out and probably the entire Fray crossover would be cut out for budget purposes. The comic allows for a much wider freedom which I think is why Joss jumped at the chance to use it to continue the series. I'm looking forward to "Coda" next month as well. I thought Meltzer in particular especially during the Twilight arc really nailed the characters in terms of their character and personalities. I like the idea of season nine going back to basics and being more character based. They're is a lot of stuff to recuperate and deal with after this season.
The comics are not stupid, but I'm not sure how successful they are in conveying some of the ideas they seem to be trying to convey, and the plot is a bit convoluted and OTT, particularly in the last few issues. Plus, it is really annoying when the main character spends several crucial issues under a magical influence, andanother major character is under the same influence and then gets semi-possessed later and kills another major character in that state (and tries to kill another), and you're left with the ambiguity of just how much he was himself throughout that. Not to mention the whole 'set up for a date rape by the universe' thing and the whole 'sex that causes world destruction' thing. And it's even more annoying when editor Scott Allie wants to have his cake and eat it by saying that Buffy was drugged but still had responsibility for her actions, and chickens out from commenting on the whole compromised consent issue, because that would mean calling it a rape. Well, you know what, when someone slips you a drug that you never intended to take, in order for you to be more willing to have sex with your ex-boyfriend, that's the very definition of date rape.
That's what I was thinking of when I said I thought the comics were a bit dumb.
Gotcha...totally understand too. That part of the arc kind of had a WTF kind of vibe going on about it. Meltzer had a great interview explaining some of the decisions behind that aspect of the arc. It's archived on comic book resources if you wanna go look it up.
The image Wesley finds of her true form shows her army in the background, although covered with crude armour, they resemble the Turok-Han shown the year earlier in Buffy.
^ Ah, thank you! It's been so long since I've seen season five; I don't have much memory of "little things" like that. It certainly would make sense for her army to be composed of Turok-Han.