Chain of Command after STXI

[Sanae]

I'm really sorry if this has been asked before but I'd really like to know if anyone has some sort of canon evidence of what the chain of command is like after the end of STXI.

This is what I know:

Commanding officer
Captain James T. Kirk

First officer
Commander Spock

Chief engineer
Lt Commander Montgomery Scott

Chief medical officer
Lt Commander Leonard McCoy

Helmsman
Lieutenant Hikaru Sulu

Navigator
Ensign Pavel Chekov

Communications officer
Lieutenant Nyota Uhura

Now, my question is, if Scotty and Bones are not on the bridge, does this mean that Sulu is the defacto Second Officer onboard?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[KobayashiMaru13]

I suppose it would depend on the situation. In general, Scotty is the 2nd. But if he's needed in engineering, I believe it would become Sulu's job. And if it WASN'T, then McCoy might transfer it to him because McCoy isn't really a commanding officer sort of guy.

Sorry I don't have any canonical evidence.

 

[JarodRussell]

Of course, if Kirk is somehow unable, any hot shot cadet - even one who boarded the ship illegally - can take his place instead.

 

[Sanae]

@KobayashiMaru13, thanks for the reply!

@JarodRussell: LOL@your post and somehow very true.

One more question is this: since both Sulu and Chekov, just like Kirk, come from the command track at the Starfleet Academy, wouldn't they take precedence over Scotty who is from operations? Again Spock is from the science branch so here'd go my theory...

See? I'm really confused by it all!

 

[iguana_tonante]

Well, I'd say Uhura should be on par with Sulu and above Chekov, since she outranks him. Except if there is some kind of line/non-line officers restriction, and Uhura is non-line (like McCoy is often supposed to be).

 

[F. King Daniel]

It seems like Sulu is second officer. Uhura (now explicitly a linguist) doesn't seem to be in the chain of command - Chekov was put in charge over her when Spock beamed down to Vulcan.

I'm not sure about Scotty, I'd guess his engineering duties are his priority. He may technically be above Sulu, but had more important repair work to do below decks? Or perhaps as the best transporter operator on board (above even Chekov), he was deemed better suited to manning that during the away mission to the Narada?

The chain of command was definitely a bit looser in this film.

 

[iguana_tonante]

It seems like Sulu is second officer. Uhura (now explicitly a linguist) doesn't seem to be in the chain of command - Chekov was put in charge over her when Spock beamed down to Vulcan.

This true. However, while Uhura is identified as a linguist, she still wear the red of operations, instead of the blue of science (like Hoshi Sato in ENT, for comparison). Still, there is a history in Trek of giving the conn to people manning the forward chair, regardless of actual rank (happened a lot in TNG and VOY as well).

The chain of command was definitely a bit looser in this film.

I agree, but I think it's a minor issue (especially considering that the half of the command crew was composed of cadets with field commissions and vaguely-defined positions).

 

[Sanae]

I guess the next movie will serve to establish the roles a lot more firmly, in the mean time, I think we can assume Sulu is the chosen guy in case Kirk and Spock aren't on the bridge because I too thought that Scotty's time is already employed in engineering and the transporter room, correct?

About Uhura being in Operations, as iguana_torrone pointed out, shouldn't she be in Science? This begs the question, who decides in which track they'll serve? The students themselves or, rather, is a choice based on their skills/aptitudes? Also, I'm really confused about the actual validity of the command track because if the members of the other two tracks can also gain access to the captaincy of a ship (read Spock) what's the point of the command track? Furthermore, why is Chekov an Ensign while Uhura and Sulu are Lieutenants? And, when Chekov has the conn, does that mean that he outranks Uhura and the rest of the people on the bridge?

Sorry for the newbie questions but I'm trying to get a clear picture of the roles and dynamics of the command chains onboard an starship in the Star Trek universe.

 

[The Wormhole]

In TOS Scotty often took command of the bridge when Kirk and Spock weren't around, logically he's the next one after them.

Why is Chekov an ensign while Sulu and Uhura are Lieutenants? Aside from the fact that those were the ranks for the characters in TOS, I got nothing.

And the communications officer uniform colour has always changed. In her first few TOS episodes, Uhura actually wore a gold uniform, before switching to red, which was adhered to for all other communications officers seen throughout the rest of the series. I don't know why Hoshi wore blue in Enterprise. The only thing I can think of is since T'Pol was a Vulcan officer and Phlox was a civilian, there were no Starfleet characters to wear blue, so they decided to make the communications officer a sciences job just so someone on the main cast would wear a blue uniform.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I suppose it would depend on the situation. In general, Scotty is the 2nd. But if he's needed in engineering, I believe it would become Sulu's job. And if it WASN'T, then McCoy might transfer it to him because McCoy isn't really a commanding officer sort of guy.

McCoy, being a doctor, is not in the chain of command (regardless of his rank). Doctors are not line officers.

 

[Cicero]

That's not always true. In modern armed services, it's possible (if unlikely) to be a doctor and a line officer - but not a medical officer and a line officer. Theoretically, an officer could attend medical school prior to joining an armed service and then enter line officer training.

Such officers were not unheard-of (but not common) in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. Most famously, General Leonard Wood, commander of the Rough Riders and later Chief of Staff of the United States Army, was a doctor as well as a line officer.

Which precedent holds in the movie's world isn't entirely clear. McCoy appears to have trained as a bridge officer during his three years at Starfleet Academy; he operates a tactical telemetry station of some sort during the Kobayashi Maru exercise. (That he needed three years of training despite already being a doctor is also suggestive of differing norms, though what they are isn't clear.)

 

[Sanae]

McCoy, being a doctor, is not in the chain of command (regardless of his rank). Doctors are not line officers.

But he's the only one onboard that can override Kirk's decisions if there's a medical condition which makes Kirk unfit for duty, correct?

And The Wormhole, thanks a lot for your reply!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

McCoy, being a doctor, is not in the chain of command (regardless of his rank). Doctors are not line officers.

But he's the only one onboard that can override Kirk's decisions if there's a medical condition which makes Kirk unfit for duty, correct?

McCoy can relieve Kirk of duty in that situation, yes. But he's still not a line officer and cannot actually take command of the ship. If he is forced to override Kirk, command would pass to Spock or the next available command officer.

 

[Sanae]

McCoy, being a doctor, is not in the chain of command (regardless of his rank). Doctors are not line officers.

But he's the only one onboard that can override Kirk's decisions if there's a medical condition which makes Kirk unfit for duty, correct?

McCoy can relieve Kirk of duty in that situation, yes. But he's still not a line officer and cannot actually take command of the ship. If he is forced to override Kirk, command would pass to Spock or the next available command officer.

Yes, of course, like it's been said already, I don't think McCoy would like taking command of the ship anyway. Also because it wouldn't really be ethical for him to relieve Kirk of duty so that he could assume command himself....not to mention that as the Chief Medical Officer I guess he needs to stay out of the chain of command so that he can be impartial, right?

Also, about Chekov being an ensign and not a lieutenant, could it be that it's because he's too young to be a lieutenant?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I dont see why it would be different than in TOS. Spock is XO and takes command when Kirk is off ship or incapcitated. Scotty is 2nd officer and takes command when Kirk and Spock are absent ( except when he doesn't) Any junior officer like Sulu, Chekov or even Uhura can be given the con or assume command as needed. IIRC, on at least one occassion in TOS a non "regular" was shown to be in command of the Enterprise in the absence of Kirk and Spock.

Of course, if Kirk is somehow unable, any hot shot cadet - even one who boarded the ship illegally - can take his place instead.

First Kirk would have to appoint him as XO.

Also, about Chekov being an ensign and not a lieutenant, could it be that it's because he's too young to be a lieutenant?

I think the point that Kirk, Uhura and Sulu are Lieutenants and have just presumably just graduated. As did Chekov.

My assumption is that, like Lt.Saavik in TWOK, they are "Grad Students" attending advance training and hold the rank of lieutenant when on active duty. ( Sulu might have graduated in the class ahead of Uhura and Kirk since we did not see him at the academy) Chekov probably went from the academy to active duty and hasnt had the time to get a promotion yet.

 

[Timo]

We didn't really see Uhura at the Academy, either. Or McCoy. Except when both were assisting in Kirk's Kobayashi Maru simulation - but from ST2 we know that commissioned officers sometimes do that, too.

Despite wearing the red uniforms, the two might have been instructors rather than cadets; they are never referred to as cadets, after all. Indeed, there seems to be a profound distinction between "Cadet Kirk" and "Lieutenant Uhura" when our heroes debate courses of action en route to Vulcan.

The fact that McCoy is a Lieutenant Commander when the real action starts, and Uhura is a Lieutenant (albeit junior grade, perhaps), is a good match for the fact that the first is apparently senior to Kirk and more advanced in his professional studies, and the second seems to have joined Starfleet earlier than Kirk. Sulu's cadet days could be in the distant past, too. It would still be perfectly possible for a standard wunderkind cadet to graduate at Ensign rank, and only gain the promotion to Lt (jg) some time after graduation.

OTOH, in ST2 it appears that the Kobayashi Maru test is part of postgraduate studies, as the commissioned officer Lieutenant (jg) Saavik takes it. So Kirk could be a commissioned officer in 2258 already, at Lt(jg) rank just like the computer of the Enterprise apparently thinks he is. The difference being, Kirk in STXI gets called "cadet" multiple times, while Saavik in ST2 never gets called that specifically. (Also, in ST2 Kirk was said to have passed the test at Cadet rank, despite Saavik passing it as Lieutenant. Perhaps we're always dealing with Kirk being special, rather than observing standard Starfleet Academy practices?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Myk]

Or perhaps any student at the academy is called "cadet" even the Grad Students who hold actual ranks. IIRC correctly Uhura is called both cadet and Lieutenant by Pike when she's on the bridge.

 

[Sanae]

Or perhaps any student at the academy is called "cadet" even the Grad Students who hold actual ranks. IIRC correctly Uhura is called both cadet and Lieutenant by Pike when she's on the bridge.

That's true too.

And I was under the impression that Kirk somehow managed to complete the four year curriculum in his three years at the academy, in that case, wouldn't that put him in the same graduating class as Uhura?

I also think that Sulu probably graduated one or two years before Kirk and Uhura and that had been serving on some other ship before being assigned to replace McKenna. As per Chekov, if age isn't relevant for his being an ensign and since he gets called Russian wiz kid by Pike, I'm thinking that either he was some sort of exception to the rule or, rather, ensigns are cadets who complete their Academy curriculum while onboard a starship, as in some sort of on-the-job training. This would justify the presence of other ensigns onboard the Enterprise, right?

Also, I might be mistaken but since McCoy is a doctor, wouldn't any army grant him an officer's rank due to his qualifications? He would still need to go through basic training in order to be eligible to serve onboard a starship. I think that McCoy's presence at the Academy by the time Kirk and Uhura are graduating is as a doctor, not as a student, also because he did tell that guy at the shuttle that he was one of the Enterprise's senior medical officers, did he not?

As per Scotty, I'm a little confused as to why he'd be a Lieutenant Commander when he spoke about that instructor he had his fight with regarding the theory of transwarp beaming. Maybe he's referring to a former instructor though, Scotty does look a lot older than most of the crew, excepting McCoy.

Regarding Spock, was is mentioned anywhere that he'd been serving as Pike's XO before they both got transferred to the Enterprise?

 

[Timo]

IIRC correctly Uhura is called both cadet and Lieutenant by Pike when she's on the bridge.

Ah, right... "Do you speak Romulan, Cadet?". It's just Spock who insists on calling Uhura "Lieutenant" while calling Kirk "Cadet" there.

And I was under the impression that Kirk somehow managed to complete the four year curriculum in his three years at the academy, in that case, wouldn't that put him in the same graduating class as Uhura?

Why, though? Uhura could have graduated in less than four years, too. And could have started several years before Kirk.

I might be mistaken but since McCoy is a doctor, wouldn't any army grant him an officer's rank due to his qualifications?

We don't know if Starfleet is "any army". The TNG era doctors appear to go through extensive Academy training, not just a token visit to San Francisco. Also, Starfleet doesn't necessarily grant graduating MDs higher initial rank than graduating "regulars", like real militaries do. We haven't seen an Ensign (Chief) Medical Officer, to be sure, but we do have Nurse Ogawa who holds Ensign rank yet in a possible future works as CMO.

Nevertheless, I'm also of the opinion that McCoy in STXI was a graduate and an experienced, senior medical officer who was just "slumming" at the Academy, rather than trying to complete his education apace with Cadet Kirk.

As per Scotty, I'm a little confused as to why he'd be a Lieutenant Commander when he spoke about that instructor he had his fight with regarding the theory of transwarp beaming. Maybe he's referring to a former instructor though, Scotty does look a lot older than most of the crew, excepting McCoy.

Makes sense. If Scotty's "disfavored status" goes back to the time he had an instructor, though, he's got plenty of reason to be pissed off...

Regarding Spock, was is mentioned anywhere that he'd been serving as Pike's XO before they both got transferred to the Enterprise?

Not in this movie.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

According to some TOS episode or other, Kirk graduated the academy with the rank of lieutenant. In STXI, Kirk and Uhura were both lieutenants when they boarded the Enterprise (when Chekov beams Kirk and Sulu up, the screen says "Lt. J.T.Kirk", Spock calls Uhura "Lieutenant" when the cadets are boarding the shuttles) although they're still cadets. I think they were due to graduate soon-ish, but hadn't yet. I assumed they already held the ranks because they were just that damn good.

At the time of Kirk's Kobayashi Maru, Spock's been an instuctor at the academy for the last four years. I got the impression he and Pike were working at the academy while the Enterprise was being prepared.