USS ENTERPRISE HAYNES OWNERS MANUAL (Part 3)

[Vance]

You forget, Warped, the model was built really early on, and even had to be rescaled, reworked, several times even before the pilot was shot. A lot of the details on the model were meant for the original draft of the show, which was extremely different in terms of the technology described.

 

[Warped9]

You forget, Warped, the model was built really early on, and even had to be rescaled, reworked, several times even before the pilot was shot. A lot of the details on the model were meant for the original draft of the show, which was extremely different in terms of the technology described.

No, right off we hear Pike order "screen on." And we hear Kirk order the same thing in WNMHGB. That tells me that there never was a "window" on the bridge. It was always a viewing display. In "The Cage" the 11ft. miniature wasn't lighted and there's no detail on the forward part of the bridge dome that can be misconstrued as a window. For WNMHGB they added lighting to the miniature and someone added a "window" to the forward part of the bridge dome even though Kirk's dialogue clearly asserts the bridge has a main viewing screen. Later when the miniature is modified yet again for series production that lighted "window" disappears and clearly cements that there never was a window on the bridge looking forward. It has always been meant to be a viewing screen.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Not exactly. The three-footer wasn't completed until November, and was first shown to Roddenberry while shooting was going on for the Rigel VII scenes. The eleven footer was completed about a month later. While the Enterprise sets were being constructed, all they had was the general shape of the ship, which is why those schematic pics on the little viewers don't really match the model very well.

Shaw has a pretty detailed timeline on this.

And that was Kirk in WNMHGB who says "Viewer on." Pike never says that.

 

[Warped9]

Nope. Your right it isn't Pike, but Spock makes reference to the screen very early in "The Cage." And it certainly doesn't behave like a window.

 

[Vance]

Nope. Your right it isn't Pike, but Spock makes reference to the screen very early in "The Cage." And it certainly doesn't behave like a window.

I never even implied that it WAS a window in "The Cage". I'm saying that the original draft of the show would have treated it as such... This is same draft with Spock the Martian, asteroid hopping, and rocket engines! That window on the model was certainly meant to be the forward viewscreen at that time.

Fortunately, someone got a hold of Roddenberry and drug the series draft and pitch out of the early 1950s and into a slightly more modern understanding of science - but some legacy material remained on the model, in the sets, and even in the script.

The model and live-action filming and rewriting were pretty concurrent, and details on the model were done before the changes in the set and design philosophly could be reflected on that model... though these changes would affect how the model would be updated before production.

 

[Vance]

Okay, tracked this one down for good.

Harvey Lynn sent in a 'recommended changes' note to Gene Roddenberry as pre-production for "The Cage" was being worked on (and as the first model was being completed). The change?

"Incidentally, can you use the idea of a screen display?"

Harvey would go on to explain how it could be used to convey some information better for the plot and allow for more dynamic shots on the bridge. This would be September 30, 1964.

It was a window until that date.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Lynn's comments are from 30 September 1964, and is in reference to Jose's original line of "Course computed and on the board," later changed to "on the screen." The initial story outline was written in 29 June 1964 and refers to "the giant picture screen at the bridge."

So, no, it was never a window.

 

[Warped9]

Lynn's comments are from 30 September 1964, and is in reference to Jose's original line of "Course computed and on the board," later changed to "on the screen." The initial story outline was written in 29 June 1964 and refers to "the giant picture screen at the bridge."

So, no, it was never a window.

Yep.

 

[Forbin]

Except when Kirk looked in through it in Requiem for Methusela.

 

[Vance]

So the model etching that is right where the screen/window would be, that is the right size for the screen (in the model's second scale), that is the right SHAPE for the screen, isn't actually the window screen. It's just kinda THERE, defying every single point of logic about how the model was designed and put together?

Got it, thanks guys.

 

[Warped9]

Except when Kirk looked in through it in Requiem for Methusela.

When Kirk apparently looks through the viewscreen it's a trick of the way it's shot because on the miniature there's no window there for him to look through. When we see his face through the viewscreen we're seeing what the ship's cameras or imaging sensors are picking up even if miniaturized. When Kirk is looking down at his ship he isn't literally looking at his crew through the viewscreen. He's just looking at his shrunken ship and contemplating their state and their fate.

 

[Vance]

He's just looking at his shrunken ship and contemplating their state and their fate.

I'm talking about the model used in the "The Cage" and it's originally drafted purpose, and expressly not how it wound up being used in the series. Remember, the model and designs as ordered by Gene were being made as Gene was doing his tech research, which caused many revisions and drew up costs - pissing off NBC.

So quit fucking moving the goal posts.

 

[Warped9]

^^ I'm not moving goalposts because I was responding to Forbin's post regarding the scene in "Requiem for Methuselah."

And I don't know what you're talking about because I don't see anything on "The Cage" model that can be interpreted as a window.

 

[Vance]

^^ I'm not moving goalposts because I was responding to Forbin's post regarding the scene in "Requiem for Methuselah."

And I don't know what you're talking about because I don't see anything on "The Cage" model that can be interpreted as a window.

Direct forward on the 'bridge tower'. It's a upper dark etching just above the red lines and windows. It's one of the details on that version of the ship that was obviously meant to be altered through the production of the pilot.

 

[SonicRanger]

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/0x00/thecage011.jpg

 

[Shaw]

Interesting discussion... though it is strange that anyone still believes that the models were at multiple scales. The scale was determined before the start of the models and didn't change after that.

 

[Warped9]

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/0x00/thecage011.jpg

The thing isn't even aligned with the bridge's orientation! And it's on an angle while the bridge's main viewscreen is upright.

Okay, I can see how someone might interpret it that way. But the question is WHO put that detail there. Did GR direct it? Did MJ? Did Richard Datin or whoever else involved in making the model? Was that detail on the original construction drawings? Did GR or MJ oversee every single detail on the model?

The only time I saw an image of an angled viewscreen or viewport on the bridge was in an early MJ sketch that can be found reprinted in the Star Trek Sketchbook I believe.

 

[Vance]

Going from the admittedly error-prone "Making of Star Trek", Gene had the ship's scale changed as the pilot was being worked on. The original pitch had the ship at about 200' in length, with the final turn in coming in at 947'.

According to Matt Jefferies, the models were constantly tweaked and improved as production continued, often with Gene adding comments here and there. The final size and details of the ship came in in November, well after the models were under construction. (This is one reason for the notable variances between the models used in shooting.)

The 'second scale' would be when the ship went to 400' or so in the production material. As you know, there were a handful of legacy details of that scale still present on the model (and in production art) before the 947' size was finally settled on. The size WAS settled, according to the book, while "The Cage" was being made.

 

[Vance]

The thing isn't even aligned with the bridge's orientation! And it's on an angle while the bridge's main viewscreen is upright.

Yeah, THAT shot will keep some people awake at night. Obviously the FX for the bridge weren't quite synced with the model, else the turbolift doors would open to empty space! DOH!

Anyway, all I intended to show was that there was a bit of legacy detail still present on the model from when it was going to be a window. This detail was, of course, lost when the models were revised again for the second pilot.

Okay, I can see how someone might interpret it that way. But the question is WHO put that detail there. Did GR direct it? Did MJ? Did Richard Datin or whoever else involved in making the model? Was that detail on the original construction drawings? Did GR or MJ oversee every single detail on the model?

Gene did a lot of oversight according to everything I read. He wanted that ship to be real so he was constantly tweaking and running up costs. I don't know if he explicitly directed that the window be there, but he clearly signed off on it at some point.

 

[Warped9]

For the finer points of what happened when I defer to Shaw.

And has anyone around here even seen the original construction drawings?