The Klingon / Federation Alliance

[Lorna]

So the Klingons and the Federation are supposed allies. When the Klingons attacked the Cardassians they expected Federation assistance, so it must be a Military based alliance.

Obviously the Federation did not help the Klingons because the Klingons were the aggressor. But I got thinking, would the Federation join the Klingons in a war if the Klingons weren't the aggressor?

Imagine there is a powerful species and they're nice as pie with the Federation, they get on very well and form trade agreements and the like but then let's say this powerful species dislikes the Klingons and are aggressive with the Klingon Empire and eventually go to war.

Considering that this species has a positive relationship with the Federation how would the Federation uphold their end of the alliance with the Klingons??

The Federation has not been immune to war but it's not like they go looking for it, I find it highly unlikely they would go to war simply on behalf of the Klingons.

So just what is it that the Klingons and Federation have? Are they indeed allies or is simply just a non-aggression treaty they have between them? if it's not an alliance why do they keep saying that they are allies and why did the Klingons expect help against the Cardassians?

It would seem to me as if the Klingon/Federation alliance is just for show but when it would come to the crunch it just simply cannot work.

The only reason they worked together was because the Dominion was a common threat.
Take away the common threat factor and the Federation would never aid the Klingons in a war even if it was not the Klingons who are responsible for it.

I can imagine the Federation would try a diplomatic approach to end the war but they'd never join the war.

 

[C.E. Evans]

To an extent, I think the Federation-Klingon alliance was the result of the Romulans turning against the Klingons during the early to mid 24th-Century.

I believe the alliance extends to both sides joining forces against mutual adversaries (namely the Romulans--and likely the Borg--but eventually went on to include the Dominion). On the other hand, I don't think the alliance includes "personal" conflicts by either side--the Klingons may not have been involved in the pre-TNG Federation-Cardassian Border Wars, for example if the Cardassians were no threat to the Klingons at time. In turn, the Federation probably wasn't involved in any squabbles the Klingons may have had with a smaller nation along their borders if it wasn't a threat to the Federation.

That being said, both sides probably would rush to one another's aide if there was something that threatened the survival of the other, IMO.

We also just can't ignore that the Klingons just love a good fight either, and hanging with the Federation just provides more opportunities to do so given the number of adversaries the Federation inevitably runs into...

 

[BillJ]

I would think that a major power doing business with the Federation would honor treaties with Federation allies or risk losing that association and the benefits that come with it.

Plus we know there is an extradition treaty in place as well, see Heart of Glory.

 

[The Wormhole]

I would imagine mutual defense is part of the treaty between the Federation and Klingons. After all, the Klingons did send ships to Wolf 359. There are many treaties between countries in real life which aren't necessarily military based, but due include mutual defense if any of the countries in the treaty are attacked.

 

[Paradon]

This is why Thomas Jefferson said that you should never forge alliances and take sides because it is dangerous and certainly never make deals or ally yourselves with terrorists and thugs. We should stay neutral and stay out of other countries social and political development. If you look at the history, most, if no all, the government we helped installed turned out to be oppressive, which killed millions of people. the last person we helped in Cambodia to overthrow the communist regime was Pol Pot. He fought on our side overthrowing the communists, but after he ceased control of the government, he brutally murder millions of Cambodians (women and children). Gruesome torturing were use to killed and interrogate prisoners. This is also the reason why we are dealing with the Muslim terrorist threat right now. You never know really know what that person's agenda really is.... If you want to help you should use diplomacy and economic incentive... And did I say stay neutral? This is why Switzerland has never had any terrorist attacks.

 

[Anwar]

It was mentioned before that the Klingons and Cardassians had battled each other. A skirmish that lasted 18 years.

 

[BillJ]

This is why Thomas Jefferson said that you should never forge alliances and take sides because it is dangerous and certainly never make deals or ally yourselves with terrorists and thugs...

This is just flat silly. You should never work towards a common cause with those that share the same goals?

Better just let it go at this...

Switzerland.

 

[Paradon]

We can influence them by diplomacy and economic incentives without getting caught in the conflicts with other worlds. That's a better way of achieve common goals.... If we didn't kill so many aliens like we see on ST, they will be more willing to listen to our point of view. You can make angry people happy again, but you can't bring back dead people. Like in Vietnam, for example, we went in there and tore their country apart trying to make them more like us, killing and seriously injuring innocent people a long the way. And When the going got tough (our casualties were piling up), we left and leaving some of the indigenous people who fought on our side at the mercy of the communists. War is not necessary to achieve peace! No war ever benefited a nation...only weakens it by draining the resources. All the political and social problems we are experiencing largely stems from the Civil War. In competitive behavior, someone always looses.

 

[BillJ]

We can influence them by diplomacy and economic incentives without getting caught in the conflicts with other worlds. That's a better way of achieve common goals.... If we didn't kill so many aliens like we see on ST, they will be more willing to listen to our point of view. You can make angry people happy again, but you can't bring back dead people. Like in Vietnam, for example, we went in there and tore their country apart trying to make them more like us, killing and seriously injuring innocent people a long the way. And When the going got tough (our casualties were piling up), we left and leaving some of the indigenous people who fought on our side at the mercy of the communists. War is not necessary to achieve peace! No war ever benefited a nation. All the political and social problems we are experiencing largely stems from the Civil War. In competitive behavior, someone always looses.

I just don't know how to respond. It is entertaining though!

You remind me of the alien from Allegiance:

THOLL: I've never even heard of the Moropa. My race has no enemies.
PICARD: None? In the last three hundred years of Mizarian history, your planet has been conquered six times!
THOLL: And we've survived by not resisting. Mizarians value peace above confrontation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ One wonders why a race like the Mizarians would even be worth conquering in the first place...

As for the Klingons and the Federation: I think that the main thing that binds them both together, and ensures that they'll always have each other's back, is that you always know where you stand with both of them. Neither the Klingons nor the UFP are prone to sneaking around and pretending to be something they're not. Everyone knows what they both are. The Federation is like the Boy Scouts of the galaxy, and the Klingons are always eager for a good ass kicking. Both of these organizations see this in the other, and respect it. Even if the Klingons might occasionally think that the Federation is weak (although most probably don't), or conversely the UFP might view the Klingons as bloodthirsty, there's always going to be that respect.

 

[Paradon]

The Dominions think humans are garbage. We've done terrible things to other aliens and before they were capable of space travel they were killing each other. And then they come to other worlds in the name of peace while behind their backs they were still causing death and destruction as ways to manipulate other worlds so it will work in their favor. I'm not surprised that the destruction of Romulus was the result of Federation plannings. Nero seemed to pissed off for something like a supernova that happened naturally. That guy was out to kill you. I think there is more to it than meets the eyes than we relize.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm not surprised that the destruction of Romulus was the result of Federation plannings. Nero seemed to pissed off for something like a supernova that happened naturally.

Excuse me? We saw the supernova as it happened. You can't engineer something like that. And the Federation simply would not do that, even if they could. As for Nero, well, the fact that he was near insane with rage would tend to color his judgment...

Getting back to the Klingons. Eh hem. They wouldn't do that either. The Klingons aren't out to *destroy*, but to conquer. There is a difference. Martok once said that even when his people were the Federation's enemies, they never went after Earth directly...

 

[indolover]

From what I have seen, it seems the treaty outlines a NATO-esque mutual defence pact, free passage in each other's space, and most likely military, scientific and perhaps even civilian co-operation.

The Cardassian case was obviously cleverly engineered by the Founders. They know that the Klingons live for combat, as a warrior race, and frankly wanted somebody to attack. They also know that the Federation would never support an unprovoked invasion. It was the perfect foil to disrupt/end the Alliance, and weaken potential threats to the Founders.

Another thing is that, up until Cardassia joined the Dominion anyhow, Cardassia was an ally of the Federation of a sort (even if they were re-arming in The Wounded, or wanted to invade Federation space in Chain of Command). The Federation was caught in a sticky situation, since it could not betray an ally, yet not let another ally succumb to attack.

 

[Anwar]

The hole thing was set up back in "The Die is Cast". Lovok told Odo and Garak that since the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order were gone the only threats left were the Federation and the Klingons.

What happens next season? The Klingons and Federation break off their peace treaty and engage in hostilities, and the Klingons were influenced into doing this by the Martok Changeling.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder if there are any more exchange officers serving in each other's fleets. We had Riker on a Klingon ship, and Kurn (very briefly) on the Enterprise-D. Are there others? (Worf doesn't count, since he is a full time Starfleet officer.)

 

[EJA]

Oddly enough, it's mentioned in TNG "Aquiel" that the last Klingon attack on the Federation was only something like seven years ago. But the alliance had been in place for decades, right?

 

[SilentP]

^ Rogue Klingon faction?

 

[Nightdiamond]

There appeared to be a big economic/military advantage to the alliance.

As Indolover pointed out, both powers could travel and trade through each other's space, and had the mutual defense contract as mentioned before.

The TNG era seemed to be something of an 'golden age' as far as technology and prosperity were concerned.

I think many Klingons recognized that, but some still wanted to go back to the 'old ways' anyway.

Like the Klingon civil war, the breaking of the treaty during DS9, then the resigning of it, then a movement to break away from the Fed alliance and defend against the Dominion themselves.

Sometimes the Klingons could be all over the place .

 

[T'Girl]

The TNG era seemed to be something of an 'golden age' as far as [snip] prosperity were concerned.

The Federation's mysterious Polly Anna attitude to the side, the TNG era was one of almost constant warfare, conflicts and incidents. The problems with the Cardassians were apparently never ending. The events during the Dominion War, in terms of the size of a war fleet the Federation could assemble if it put it's resources to a single purpose, would seem to indicate that the Federation could have ended it's problems with the Cardassians in short order, unfortunately the Federation's principals and high ethical position prevented it from protecting it's own citizens lives.

Also, if you read between the lines, the Federation was engage in a general policy of territorial expansion, in three years of TOS only once did the show mention a new member in the Federation, during seven years of TNG it was a common theme. The Federation fought at least two wars (territorial wars?) with the Tzenkethi, it was the Federation's attempt to expand and colonize beyond it's existing borders that ultimately created the Maquis. It was the Federation's attempts to establish a mining settlement and facilitate Bajorian colonies in the Gamma quadrant that resulted in the Dominion War.

 

[SilentP]

Also, if you read between the lines, the Federation was engage in a general policy of territorial expansion, in three years of TOS only once did the show mention a new member in the Federation, during seven years of TNG it was a common theme.

While the NCC-1701 was meant to be 'nothing special' in terms of Starfleet (at least in the time frame of the series), the NCC 1701-D was the Federation flagship, so it would be logical that the E-D was being sent to evaluate new potential members to join the Federation over other vessels. Also we do not know what the spread of senient warp capable species was like between the two eras.

The Federation fought at least two wars (territorial wars?) with the Tzenkethi,

Who says the Federation was the aggressor in these cases?

it was the Federation's attempt to expand and colonize beyond it's existing borders that ultimately created the Maquis.

Pray tell, unless you are attempting to expand into areas already colonised by another power, what is wrong with expanding your territory?

And again, in the case of the Cardassian war, how do we know it was not the Cardassians trying to expand into Federation territory?

It was the Federation's attempts to establish a mining settlement and facilitate Bajorian colonies in the Gamma quadrant that resulted in the Dominion War.

Every Alpha Quadrant species that could was wanting a slice of the pie in the newly discovered frontier, remember it took nearly 3 seasons of DS9 for the Dominion to show their faces directly to the Alpha Quadrant powers, so it's not like the Federation was setting up shop directly in Dominion territory.

The Dominion War was initiated because the Dominio thought that the whole of space they could reach was theirs to have, and the concept of there being powers that could challenge them, such as the Federation, Klingon Empire etc. was intolerable.