Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

[Shatnertage]

Hmmm...IMHO the tux is a bit costumey (a Google images search for "Ingrid Bergman Casablanca" turns up plenty of stuff I think would have worked better), but IDIC, of course.

When I first started watching Star Trek at some period in the late 1970s as a little kid, I never could imagine that one day I'd be quibbling with folks over the captain's fashion choices. Life is pretty good!

Anyway, I'm now on to...

"The Killing Game, Part II"

This one was a lot more straight-forward than Part I, with a few twists here and there.

I liked Klingon Neelix. I wish I could shout, "YOU WILL LISTEN!" like that.

Interesting but no doubt controversial resolution, as the Hirogen weren't really defeated, and Janeway gave them holodeck technology.

It was a good decision for the writers to make, because I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I'd probably have a better idea if I had seen the other Hirogen episodes.

So this takes place in Season 4? I just checked MA. I haven't seen a few chunks of Season 2, and the second half of Season 3. I've seen everything from "Dragon's Teeth" to "Tsunkatse" in Season 6.

I've got a lot of Voyager to watch! I might start Netflixing these. Spike isn't doing too well.

 

[T.D. Possum]

I liked Klingon Neelix. I wish I could shout, "YOU WILL LISTEN!" like that.

Yes! Klingon Neelix was completely awesome in every way.

The ending irked me a little, not because of what happened, but because it came so suddenly. I wouldn't have minded having this episode be a three parter, so we could see the fighting that took place before and after the holodeck bits.

Without giving away too much information, I will tell you that in a later episode, you'll get to see how the Hirogen put the holodeck technology to use.

When I first started watching Star Trek at some period in the late 1970s as a little kid, I never could imagine that one day I'd be quibbling with folks over the captain's fashion choices. Life is pretty good!

Not to mention seeing Star Trek more or less on demand. YES, go on and Netflix some Voyager.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Hmmm...IMHO the tux is a bit costumey (a Google images search for "Ingrid Bergman Casablanca" turns up plenty of stuff I think would have worked better), but IDIC, of course.

When I first started watching Star Trek at some period in the late 1970s as a little kid, I never could imagine that one day I'd be quibbling with folks over the captain's fashion choices. Life is pretty good!

Anyway, I'm now on to...

"The Killing Game, Part II"

This one was a lot more straight-forward than Part I, with a few twists here and there.

I liked Klingon Neelix. I wish I could shout, "YOU WILL LISTEN!" like that.

Interesting but no doubt controversial resolution, as the Hirogen weren't really defeated, and Janeway gave them holodeck technology.

It was a good decision for the writers to make, because I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I'd probably have a better idea if I had seen the other Hirogen episodes.

So this takes place in Season 4? I just checked MA. I haven't seen a few chunks of Season 2, and the second half of Season 3. I've seen everything from "Dragon's Teeth" to "Tsunkatse" in Season 6.

I've got a lot of Voyager to watch! I might start Netflixing these. Spike isn't doing too well.

Will this help?

http://www.youtube.com/user/startrekepisodes1

 

[Shatnertage]

^ That's pretty cool. Thanks.

 

[vas2009]

I know your probably trying to get away from the "tux" convo. but... I didn't care for the tux at first cuz I wanted Janeway to wear something "hotter" but as I've gotten a little older I have defiantly learned to appreciate it. Something about it has an effect on me... my mouth waters like this and my heart throbs and I can't help the I get. The tux is a very commanding costume and (as I have admitted) at first I didn't appreciated how well Goddess Janeway pulled it off but even then the dress seven wore was completley over shadowed by that tux.

 

[Shatnertage]

Maybe I have to watch it again. My inner Michael Kors just said (very cattily), "It looks like the circus has come to town!" when I saw it. I can appreciate other points of view, though (even while my inner Klingon Neelix wants to scream "YOU WILL LISTEN!").

I just thought they could have put her in something really striking--a flowing gown, or a slinky cocktail dress. There's not too many chances for them to put the actors into something besides those uniforms, so I really like to see them make the most of it.

 

[T.D. Possum]

Shatnertage, you don't know what you started with the tux remark. But we still like you.

BTW, Vas, I see you changed your avatar today. I started to change mine to the Janeway-white-tux one I use on You Tube but then I got lazy.

 

[vas2009]

Maybe I have to watch it again. My inner Michael Kors just said (very cattily), "It looks like the circus has come to town!" when I saw it. I can appreciate other points of view, though (even while my inner Klingon Neelix wants to scream "YOU WILL LISTEN!").

I just thought they could have put her in something really striking--a flowing gown, or a slinky cocktail dress. There's not too many chances for them to put the actors into something besides those uniforms, so I really like to see them make the most of it.

It's ok I'm playing. I see that you feel the same way I did. wanted to see Ol' Captain in a COCKtail dress I wouldn't have minded that at all.

Shatnertage, you don't know what you started with the tux remark. But we still like you.

BTW, Vas, I see you changed your avatar today. I started to change mine to the Janeway-white-tux one I use on You Tube but then I got lazy.

LOL I really did it for you and Froot and to give Shatnertage another look

 

[Shatnertage]

I thought that if I was the kind of person who took this stuff uber-seriously and basically used Trek as a mechanism to allow myself to argue with people (I think there might be one or two folks like that on TBBS) we could really escalate the white tux/sultry cocktail dress debate. Go all the way with it, devolving into ad hominem attacks and the like. What if, I thought, things got so heated that I got banned?

This, I thought, would be the geekiest possible thing you could ever do. I accept that signing up for TBBS was pretty geeky. Having an animated discussion about Janeway's white tux--even geekier. But getting so irate that others didn't share my opinion that I'm incapable of civil discussion? That would be the geekiest thing ever.

Maybe on the Mirror VOY Forum or something.

Anyway, I scoured my DVR and found a Season 3 episode that I hadn't watched before...

"Favorite Son"

So Harry's an alien. And he's coming home for the holidays! To a planet of impossibly hot women! Who start caressing him the moment he beams down!

What could possibly go wrong?

The idea of Harry being immaculately conceived is a little grandiose. So now he's Jesus?

Naturally, they undid it all at the end.

This is the kind of episode that I could get a little mad at, for totally insulting the viewer's intelligence. From the start, the whole set up with the women is too good to be true. But there's some funny moments, like when Tom Paris tries to elbow in on the action and gets blown off.

The funniest moment in our house? When Harry's making his escape, and goes banging on that other guy's door. I yelled out, "Jeez, it's his honeymoon night! He just married three really hot women! You think he's listening for the door?"

Then when Harry pries his way in and discovers the guy's dessicated corpse: "That's what marriage'll do to you, all right."

A screencap of that would make a pretty gruesome avatar, actually. Maybe next October.

We were cracking up at the final beam-out, too. If I was Harry, I would have given them all the finger or something. And hoped that the pattern buffer didn't overload and I ended up back on the surface.

This one was kind of fun, if you accept that the conclusion that is completely obvious at the start is the one you're going to get. And you get over the "but that's not how DNA works" stuff.

I have no idea what I'm getting next...stay tuned for more fun. White tuxes optional.

 

[T.D. Possum]

So Harry's an alien. And he's coming home for the holidays! To a planet of impossibly hot women! Who start caressing him the moment he beams down!

What could possibly go wrong?

The only thing missing was a cave.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

This one was kind of fun, if you accept that the conclusion that is completely obvious at the start is the one you're going to get. And you get over the "but that's not how DNA works" stuff.

I have no idea what I'm getting next...stay tuned for more fun. White tuxes optional.

Actually, the REAL conclusion is OF COURSE they are raging vampire brides planning to suck his very essence from his soon to be dessicated corpse because this is HARRY KIM!

He ALWAYS picks the wrong woman.

Alien Harem.

Hologram.

Twin.

ExDrone.

Dead ex-girlfriend.

 

[Shatnertage]

^ Poor Harry. I've seen most of those episodes but not, so far, "twin." I can't wait for that one.

I would have loved for Harry to find some older guy in a tunnel or something, going General Jack D. Ripper about how he doesn't avoid women, but he does deny them his precious bodily essence.

 

[froot]

Don't get too excited.... "the wrong twin" isn't a major plot point

Happens in a great episode, though!

*puts on white tux*

 

[kimc]

The scene when Janeway reacts to the cargo bay being empty is worth the price of admission alone.

I agree - it was a wonderful moment.

 

[Shatnertage]

Didn't watch VOY last night--Spike has not favored me with any new eps since last week.

I did, however, watch ENT "Marauders" and, now that I'm watching VOY more, got a whole different perspective into Ethan Phillips as the head Ferengi.

He was great! Considering that Ferengi are some of the goofier-looking aliens, he did a great job of playing the character as greedy and cunning, though in an exaggerated way (as fit a comedy episode).

Makes me wish they'd have made the Talaxians look a bit less goofy, and a bit more menacing.

And I appreciate Phillips a lot more.

Loved the episode, too. Everyone, particularly Bakula and Balock, played comedy better than drama, IMHO.

 

[Shatnertage]

I'm back, just as this thread is about to slip off the front page. Finally got disc 2 of season 2, and I'm ready to talk...

Non Sequitur

At last, an episode that focuses on Harry Kim. Which convinces me that the producers were right not to make so many episodes that focus on Harry Kim. It's not that he's a bad character, or that Garrett Wang is a bad actor; it's that he just doesn't have much to work with here.

From the start, we know the premise is a set-up to something. Harry even says so early on. With "this isn't reality as we know it" lampshaded so early on, the viewer is waiting for a really nice twist.

Instead, we get a mega-dose of technobabble, and what seems like the first draft of an idea. I'm perfectly OK for half-baked ideas grounded in bad science, if there's a story and performances to back it up: "Tuvix" is my favorite example of this. I think it's definitely in the conversation when you talk about "best of VOY," and I'm not going to get hung up on "that's not how DNA really works" when I'm watching it.

By the same token, if this episode gave us anything to work with, the "time stream" nonsense would have been forgivable. But it doesn't. The characters all act like idiots. Harry doesn't try to prove his VOY bona fides at all: he could have given the SF brass classified details in an effort to convince them of the truth, and had them scan him for chroniton flux particles or whatever. Instead, we get a chase scene.

Maybe the only thing that works is the buddy romance between Paris and Kim. The actors definitely work well together, and it was nice to see AltParis make a play for salvation.

I've got to say, though, that they needed a second take of that bar fight scene. The one where Paris gently lifts his fist, and leaves it hanging in the air for what seems like a minute, while Kim "blocks" it. Very clumsy stuff that made me lift my glass in a silent toast to stunt coordinators and stunt men everywhere, who usually make fisticuffs look somewhat believable.

Honorable mention to the actress who played Libby for turning in what IMHO is the second worst performance in Trek history. She wasn't quite bad enough to detrhone Padma Lakshmi from ENT "Precious Cargo," but she seemed the opposite of convincing. I really thought she was a holodeck simulation or an alien imposter, not a woman who's watching the man she loves do some really strange stuff.

So the whole episode was quite a disappointment. I'm guessing that we never hear about these aliens who can navigate time streams again.

The episode confirmed for me that this would have been a much better show if they had done Lost-style flashbacks. Imagine the story they could have told about Kim graduating the academy and making the decision to join the VOY crew, passing up a career in warp theory. It would have been a way to get the action out of the Delta quadrant, for at least the B-stories, a few episodes each season, and it would have fleshed out the characters.

 

[Shatnertage]

I'm back again with another new watch...

"Twisted"

I might be partial because of the Wardell Grey song (and the Annie Ross version with lyrics) of the same name, but I liked "Twisted."

It has all of the hallmarks of a bad hour of VOY: no real plot, technobabble in spades, ending that has no real relevance to the rest of the story, save that it hits a big reset button (not with the characters, but with the ship emerging unscathed).

But there was some good stuff here. For one, I legitimately didn't know what was going to happen. Sure, I knew that Voyager was going to be back in one piece by the end, but I couldn't really guess how they'd get there.

Good character moment, of sorts, when Janeway tells Kim how valuable he is. I thought I missed something and she was sending him to a certain death, but I guess she was just sharing. Same for the goodbyes between Chakotay and Tuvok.

The resolution was different, and at least it wasn't a technobabble solution. Interesting to think about the species who communicates in this way. Is there any follow-up? They got 20 gigs of data added to their computer--is any of it useful for them? I hope so.

And for once the random crewman who gets speaking lines didn't get a grisly death or get his ass handed to him by Torres. There's always next episode, of course.

 

[T.D. Possum]

. . . when Janeway tells Kim how valuable he is. I thought I missed something and she was sending him to a certain death, but I guess she was just sharing.

Out of curiosity, what did you think of Neelix in this episode? It's one of the ones I point to when I'm arguing that he's creepy.

 

[Shatnertage]

^ Very insecure, which seems to be a trope with him. He's always afraid of being abandoned.

And there's this guy I know IRL who always kind of annoys me. Yesterday I realized why: even though he's human, something about his mannerisms reminds me of Neelix.

 

[T.D. Possum]

Whoa, you know a Talaxian? I don't know whether to be impressed or offer my sympathies.

It really is Neelix's annoying mannerisms that ruin the character for me. When you think about it, he's actually an interesting guy. Neurotic? Yes. Weird with Kes? Sure. But he had lots of skills in different fields (supposedly), and showed hints of being adventurous, spiritual, and bold. If only he didn't have such a thick layer of obnoxiousness coated on over all that, he might have been able to develop a good personality. Then perhaps he could have dealt with his fear of abandonment in a way that people might take seriously - instead of yelling at Kes and buying maps off criminals.

("I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the MAAAAAAAAAP!!")

On another note, this ep does have a sweet Tuvok moment - when he reaches down to put his hand on Janeway's shoulder. *sniff*