Harlan Ellison says he is dying

[MikeH92467]

In today's society, people who are smart and don't bother to hide it, don't seem to get treated very well. I have no doubt that he prides himself on not treating fools gladly and that at times he has bruised someone's feelings who didn't deserve it. Such is life. Approach a porcupine at your own risk. I've said before, and I think it's worth repeating, that what many people regard as the finest episode in TOS history ended up with everyone involved hating each other. I wonder if anyone ever asked him if he agreed with that assessment and what he would make of it.

 

[T'Bonz]

I've not met the man (probably lucky for me) but I get the idea that he is prickly. Based on everything I've heard from multiple sources about him, we'd either get along great or would be chucking things at each others' heads.

He wouldn't be boring, that much is certain.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I'm becoming convinced that David Gerrold wants to be Harlan Ellison when/if he he grows up, and is working daily to achieve that goal.

 

[Mysterion]

In my experience, he is a liar, a spreader of untrue stories and gossip, and self important to the point of absurdity. He is also nasty, ill tempered, and dismissive of the very people that give him accolades.

Your "experience," then, is minimal, misleading and ill-observed.

What has he lied about?

Which stories of his are untrue?

What false gossip has he spread?

You'll doubtless be told that the examples are too numerous to mention...or for one to be brought to mind.

Figured as much when I posted that, but just couldn't let it lay there.

From what I've seen of Ellison, as disagreeable as some might find him, he is a person who values honesty and integrity.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

In today's society, people who are smart and don't bother to hide it, don't seem to get treated very well. I have no doubt that he prides himself on not treating fools gladly and that at times he has bruised someone's feelings who didn't deserve it. Such is life. Approach a porcupine at your own risk. I've said before, and I think it's worth repeating, that what many people regard as the finest episode in TOS history ended up with everyone involved hating each other. I wonder if anyone ever asked him if he agreed with that assessment and what he would make of it.

Good question, that.

The kind of people who don't "treat you well" for displaying intelligence or not "suffering fools gladly" are not much more than a minor nuisance, unless you're running for office somewhere.

 

[pookha]

I find it hard to imagine any writer's block sturdy enough to withstand Ellison for any appreciable period of time.

Creative dead end, though, or writing oneself into a corner, that I can see very easily.

his illness in the early 80's was behind one.
iam fairly certain i have heard of another.

ellison from what i have read and talking to people who knew him before a lot of other people heard of him is pretty complex character.
yes prickly but also can be very thoughtful.

the following is pretty intersting..
http://harlanellison.com/foe/digress2.htm

couple of thoughts..
platt was miffed at harlan because in te past harlan punched him.

but then there is the wellman auction where a lot of people saw the protective harlan.
not only did he act as auctioneer he also called people up to get them to donate.

harlan is just one of those larger then life figurs that just alienate some people.

 

[Captain Robert April]

It's Harlan's world, we just live in it.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

As a writer myself (though of a very different type) I have been enormously influenced in my career by Ellison's philosophy that he simply does not work for free - something that writers are constantly asked to do. He feels strongly that writing without compensation cheapens his work and that like any professional he deserves fair pay for his work. He had a great bit in one interview where he talked about how he refused to record his thoughts on Babylon 5 for a DVD set without getting paid. The producers were absolutely stunned that he wouldn't do it just for the publicity.

That approach is sadly dying a slow death in this day and age, with endless free content available online and the expectation that even established writers will produce work with their only compensation being "getting publicity."

 

[Mysterion]

^^^
He talks about the B5 DVD situation in the film Dreams With Sharp Teeth, a documentary about Ellison I can't recommend enough to anyone interested in Ellison.

Here's the clip at Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

You really need to see the entire film, though, it is very interesting/entertaining.

 

[siskokid888]

In my experience, he is a liar, a spreader of untrue stories and gossip, and self important to the point of absurdity.

What has he lied about?

Which stories of his are untrue?

What false gossip has he spread?

Here's one - He told Stephen King (in a story he related in his book "Danse Macabre") that he pitched a story to Paramount executives and Gene Roddenberry for what was to be STTMP. (It would have been a great story, btw). He claims that one of the executives said, for some reason, "can you put some Mayans in the story?". Ellison claimed he looked at Roddenberry for help, and Roddenberry "just stared at him". Ellison, according to him, stormed out of the meeting. After the story came out, strangely enough, no one who he claimed was at the meeting, including Roddenberry, could remember such a meeting or incident taking place. It fits the usual Ellison tale - he is righteous and correct, and everyone else is an idiot. I went to a book signing where he was, and he was absolutely vile to the people that were there to give him praise - I don't mean dismissive or disinterested - I mean absolutely mean to the point of driving fans away. Thats my experience with him. Still, a great artist.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Here's one - He told Stephen King (in a story he related in his book "Danse Macabre") that he pitched a story to Paramount executives and Gene Roddenberry for what was to be STTMP. (It would have been a great story, btw). He claims that one of the executives said, for some reason, "can you put some Mayans in the story?". Ellison claimed he looked at Roddenberry for help, and Roddenberry "just stared at him". Ellison, according to him, stormed out of the meeting. After the story came out, strangely enough, no one who he claimed was at the meeting, including Roddenberry, could remember such a meeting or incident taking place.

Roddenberry also has a long history of telling exaggerated, self-serving stories, so I don't consider him the most reliable source in the world. And how exactly is Ellison not getting the gig because he lost his cool making him look good, anyway?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm sorry, we're talking Ellison's word against GR's?

Ellison wins that round.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I'm sorry, we're talking Ellison's word against GR's?

Ellison wins that round.

By a mile.

 

[Captain Robert April]

And I've heard the Mayan bit various times over the past thirty-odd years, including his appearance on "Tomorrow" with De Kelley, Jimmy Doohan, Walter Koenig, and Al Shuster. Apparently, the studio twit had just read some Van Daankien and, for reasons known only to his little pea brain, thought it might be neat to insert Mayans into a story about the dawn of man, leaving both Ellison and Roddenberry somewhat dumbfounded for a few moments. In the case of his "Tomorrow" appearance, we're talking a matter of weeks, maybe days, after the reported incident.

When has this story ever been refuted?

 

[CaptJimboJones]

And I've heard the Mayan bit various times over the past thirty-odd years, including his appearance on "Tomorrow" with De Kelley, Jimmy Doohan, Walter Koenig, and Al Shuster. Apparently, the studio twit had just read some Van Daankien and, for reasons known only to his little pea brain, thought it might be neat to insert Mayans into a story about the dawn of man, leaving both Ellison and Roddenberry somewhat dumbfounded for a few moments. In the case of his "Tomorrow" appearance, we're talking a matter of weeks, maybe days, after the reported incident.

When has this story ever been refuted?

It certainly sounds like something you'd hear a studio exec ask about.

There's no question that Ellison is a strange, prickly egomaniac who probably acts like a complete asshat a lot of the time. But since I'm not personally acquainted with him, I could care less what his social skills are like.

 

[siskokid888]

And I've heard the Mayan bit various times over the past thirty-odd years, including his appearance on "Tomorrow" with De Kelley, Jimmy Doohan, Walter Koenig, and Al Shuster. Apparently, the studio twit had just read some Van Daankien and, for reasons known only to his little pea brain, thought it might be neat to insert Mayans into a story about the dawn of man, leaving both Ellison and Roddenberry somewhat dumbfounded for a few moments. In the case of his "Tomorrow" appearance, we're talking a matter of weeks, maybe days, after the reported incident.

When has this story ever been refuted?

It certainly sounds like something you'd hear a studio exec ask about.

There's no question that Ellison is a strange, prickly egomaniac who probably acts like a complete asshat a lot of the time. But since I'm not personally acquainted with him, I could care less what his social skills are like.

That's kind of my point. There is no doubt he is a great writer, as I have repeatedly stated. But he "ain't a good guy". But that can be said for a number of great artisits.

 

[Jan]

That's kind of my point. There is no doubt he is a great writer, as I have repeatedly stated. But he "ain't a good guy". But that can be said for a number of great artisits.

My personal experience of Harlan Ellison is that he's very much a Good Guy. Always passionate, sometimes intemperate but somebody you very much want in your corner when things go badly.

Jan

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I'm sorry, we're talking Ellison's word against GR's?

Ellison wins that round.

A mile? A parsec!

GR lied about everything, from why Walter Koenig (Pravda? Really? Da, right.) was added to the cast to why he felt Ellison's script to "City" had to be re-written (it was a villain of the week, not "my Scotty" dealing drugs--and I much prefer the filmed version). And studio execs? Yeah, a veritable font of truth there. Considering that Chariots of the Gods was giving rise to Battlestar Galactica (the shitty kid show one) even as this meeting took place, it's safe to assume that the trendy New Age pseudo-scienctific bullshit the guy allegedly wanted Ellison to inject into the script was all over Hollywood.

 

[Captain Robert April]

"How about we stick some Mayans in there?"

"This is at the dawn of man, there were no Mayans!"

"Well, how 'bout just a couple of Mayans?"

 

[siskokid888]

^That is part of the claimed conversation, which was not verified by anyone supposedly there. I agree that Roddenberry is not the most trustworthy source, but the other studio execs that were supposedly there deny as well the claim that they were there, or that these things were said. Stephen King, in a later interview, also stated that he thought Ellison's story may "not have exactly delineated what took place." King was eager to take him at his word, as Ellison is one of his literary idols. All right, this horse is pretty much dead, I just wanted to relate that my experience of the man, both personnal and from what I read and heard, was that he is not a good guy. BUT HE IS A GREAT EFFING WRITER. In case I haven't stressed that enough.