Hans Zimmer on "Man of Steel" Music - Ditch Theme

[DarKush]

I would prefer they used the Williams' theme. Granted, some younger viewers might not know it, but there's going to be a lot of 'older' viewers too who would get it instantly. The theme was one of the few good things about Superman Returns, and actually should've been the only thing from the Donner movies carried over. I feel the same way about this new film.

I don't think the scores for the two recent Batman films really resonated with me at all. Williams' Superman soars and Elfman's Batman was a dark, brooding score and both really complimented their characters. Both stayed with you after the film decades later. Not so much with the new Batfilm.

I can understand the need to strike out on your own and do something different, though keeping one tie to the past, to what came before, isn't a bad thing.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I don't think you can compare the Danny Elfman Batman scores to the Superman ones. I actually really like Elfman's score (I own a copy, which is unusual for me) but it in no way has the iconic recognition value that the Superman theme has. Apart from anything else, they ditched it for Batman Forever and Batman Begins, which Elliott Goldenthal scored.

I'm in the camp which says that the Superman theme is by now as iconic as the James Bond theme and I'd miss it if they didn't use it in the next movie. The music for the recent Batman movies is the one area where I feel they're inferior to the Burton movies and I don't have great hopes of anyone coming up with a new theme for Superman which will top Williams' score. The only really memorable movie score of the last decade is Lord of the Rings, IMHO. Gladiator (just outside the last decade) was pretty good but Zimmer seems to have been re-hashing it since.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I wasn't comparing the two themes. I was using the Elfman theme as an example for the Nolan films which did go and use a totally different musical motif and theme for their movies. I do disagree with you with regards to the iconic sound of Elfman's theme. It is Batman as William's is Superman.

 

[Lonemagpie]

No, no, no!

Williams' theme is to Superman as the Bond theme is to Bond. Both are far better-known amongst the general public.

Yep, which is why I'd recommend what they did with Casino Royale - keep the legendary theme for a triumphant return over the end credits.

Having said that, it's Zack Snyder who's directing, which means it'll be Tyler Bates. At least he'll have an excuse for including somebody else's composition this time, if they use Williams' theme...

 

[Captaindemotion]

I wasn't comparing the two themes. I was using the Elfman theme as an example for the Nolan films which did go and use a totally different musical motif and theme for their movies. I do disagree with you with regards to the iconic sound of Elfman's theme. It is Batman as William's is Superman.

I wasn't really referring to you, more to Zimmer's comparison. But I do have to disagree with you about the iconic status of Elfman's theme. Much as I like it, it has nowhere near the same recognition factor as the Superman theme.

Mention Superman music to people and they can sing or hum the theme. Only a few will know the Elfman score. They'd be much more likely to go 'Denna-denna-denna-denna BATMAN!' if you ask them about the Batman theme.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

No, no, no!

Williams' theme is to Superman as the Bond theme is to Bond. Both are far better-known amongst the general public than Elfman's Batman theme.

I'm of two minds. I *love* the Williams theme so I like the idea of equating Superman to The Theme. But considering that the character exists in so many incarnations outside of feature films, The Theme isn't associated with the character as closely as it is for Bond.

Factoring in how the Superman film franchise has struggled over its last three films (III, IV, & Returns) and needs to clearly establish its own identity, I could accept a whole new thematic score if the new film is going to try and establish a whole new identity. But if the new film, in any way, references the Donner-verse, then the Williams theme should be there.

As for composers ... I can think of others I'd choose over Zimmer -- and I like Zimmer's work on POTC and his collaboration with Howard on Batman. But talk about needing to establish a new identity, Zimmer spends too much energy cannibalizing his previous work. That doesn't inspire confidence that his Supes theme would be both iconic and fresh enough to replace Williams.

 

[JarodRussell]

Hans Zimmer is a hack, especially compared to Williams. His scores are generic, uninspired, dull and boring. And the worst thing, synthesized. I can't believe he gets to score so many movies. Probably because he produces these scores in a day or two, quick and cheap.

The only good moments from the recent Batman soundtracks come from James Newton Howard.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Hans Zimmer is a hack. His scores are generic, dull and boring.

"Dull and boring" aren't words I'd use to criticize Zimmer. Derivative? Repetitive? Over-produced? But I can't think of a Zimmer score that was dull. I give him credit for creating scores that are, if nothing else, kinetic. Sure, he might use the same tricks (and same melodies) over and over again. But there are a lot of composers out there that are far more dull and boring than Zimmer.

 

[Shazam!]

Ditch the theme, but get John Williams in to do a new one. Win / Win.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, the 2009 Star Trek movie did just fine with using only a few notes of Courage's Star Trek theme here and there prior to the closing credits and ditching Goldsmith's music altogether. No real reason these folks need to approach this differently.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Star Trek (2009) is competent, but it is hardly a standout score. There are a couple of good tracks and notable musical moments, but much of it is generic action music. And Giacchino's rendition of the Courage theme sounds like a generic presentation by the Academy Awards orchestra. I certainly wouldn't consider it as memorable as, say, the POTC score.

 

[Takeru]

I think the Williams theme needs to be in the next film; casual moviegoers, I'm sure, will expect to hear it.

Some Superman fans will expect to hear it, casual moviegoers won't give a shit if it's used or not.

I say ditch it, while it is good it's not the be all and end all of Superman themes.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I think the expanded Star Trek score is far better than the released score (much like John Ottman's expanded "Superman Returns" score is way better than the shoddy release it got). I like the idea of using John William's theme at the end during the credits like "Casino Royale" and "Star Trek" did as a nice nod.

I mentioned Tyler Bates earlier in the thread. The prospect of hearing a Tyler Bates "Superman" score makes me shudder. Not a fan.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I can barely listen to the entire Trek '09 OST in one sitting. How could the expanded score possibly improve the experience? If the extra material is that good, why isn't it on the OST? I seem to recall that most of the exceptional musical moments in the film made their way onto the OST. What does the expanded score have that the OST is missing?

 

[Eduardo]

While it is iconic, they should drop it and have a clean start.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I like the ST 09 score fine. More to the point, the audience clearly accepted the elimination of the old music without much difficulty - it certainly didn't diminish the success of the film in any way.

 

[JarodRussell]

I can barely listen to the entire Trek '09 OST in one sitting. How could the expanded score possibly improve the experience? If the extra material is that good, why isn't it on the OST? I seem to recall that most of the exceptional musical moments in the film made their way onto the OST. What does the expanded score have that the OST is missing?

The exceptional musical moments that you don't recall.

 

[Gojira]

No, no, no!

Williams' theme is to Superman as the Bond theme is to Bond. Both are far better-known amongst the general public than Elfman's Batman theme.

Use it judiciously and sparingly? Sure. Introduce new themes? Knock yourself out. Ditch Williams' theme altogether? No.

quoted for truth

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ All these Obama avatars are really confusing me! *not including Space Therapist's Na'vi Mr Bean

 

[Scotty]

Hans Zimmer scoring Man of Steel? IMO that's official confirmation that the score will suck. Zimmer hasn't composed a good filmscore since 2000. And he had help from Lisa Gerard back then.