So the Regeneration limit jumps from 12 to 507...? SJA SPOILERS

[intrinsical]

Does no one else agree that the Doctor being immortal would undermine the show?

I enjoy the stories in Doctor Who, not the "powers" that the Doctor and Timelords possess. So long as the stories are interesting and creative, I really do not care that the Doctor has a million regenerations, a sonic screwdriver that can do just about anything, or a time machine so powerful that can churn out enough light to replace the sun for a thousand years and destroy the entire universe.

Personally, I think the Doctor Who approach to writing scripts is better than the approach used by TNG writers where they simply get the science advisor to fill in the X-es in the script:

Picard: We need to do X to get out of this place.
Geordi: How about we X the X so we have enough power to X out of here?
Data: There is not enough X, however we can X the X in 10 hours.
Geordi: Perfect! I'll get started immediately.

 

[TemporalFlux]

507
Five hundred and seven
Five and seven
12

Ah-ha!

 

[Starkers]

^
No. The Doctor is not immortal because the Time Lords are gone. In fact we see from them giving the Master a new cycle that only Time Lords can grant new cycles. They're not around to hand new lives out.

Does no one else agree that the Doctor being immortal would undermine the show? I've no problem with him getting more (though certainly not unlimited) regenerations, provided it's the result of a good and satisfying story. As I've said, I've got an idea that works, and it's not as if I'm a professional writer. Perhaps the new Who lot should get some competent people in to deal with these things, or else we'll end up with Gatiss, Roberts, or Chibnall having him find that magic fucking crystal that RTD thinks is what passes for a good idea.

Actually I agree with you, I think if he's essentially immortal then it lessons the character somewhat. I don't have a problem with them extending the regenerations limit--although like EMH I find the notion of a completely mortal 13th Doctor very intriguing, and I'd rather the show went out of a high than limped away like it did in the 80s--but I think it should be dealt with in a simple throwaway manner. Essentially I'd guess the majority of people who watch the show now probably aren't even aware of the limit. I think it needs addressing with more than an off hand line, but I don't think they should make a big deal about it.

As for your idea, good for you but, as I think Lonemagpie once said, having an idea is the easy part, writing the story is the hard part; but if you want to be a writer go for it, the BBC Writers' room does accept scripts (though not for Who, but just like anyone else you'll have to serve your apprenticship if you're good enough before they'd let you anywhere near it).

 

[Admiral_Young]

I took the line to be a joke and once again something that the fandom is tearing apart and really makes no difference in the long run.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

507
Five hundred and seven
Five and seven
12

Ah-ha!

Works for me.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

Does no one else agree that the Doctor being immortal would undermine the show?

I enjoy the stories in Doctor Who, not the "powers" that the Doctor and Timelords possess. So long as the stories are interesting and creative, I really do not care that the Doctor has a million regenerations, a sonic screwdriver that can do just about anything, or a time machine so powerful that can churn out enough light to replace the sun for a thousand years and destroy the entire universe.

Personally, I think the Doctor Who approach to writing scripts is better than the approach used by TNG writers where they simply get the science advisor to fill in the X-es in the script:

Picard: We need to do X to get out of this place.
Geordi: How about we X the X so we have enough power to X out of here?
Data: There is not enough X, however we can X the X in 10 hours.
Geordi: Perfect! I'll get started immediately.

You forgot:
Picard: You've got six.

On the topic at hand, I don't see how the Doctor is immortal. He doesn't always regenerate. See Turn Left. Plenty of ways to kill him off.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I wouldn't consider The Doctor to be immortal...the regeneration limit not withstanding we all know that he can be killed, and that there can be complications during the regeneration process that can cause him to be killed permanently. He has lived an extremely long life but in multiple incarnations...I'd not consider him to be immortal. Not like say Angel or someone like that for an example who does have the potential to be an immortal.

 

[Whofan]

I think the limit was created in the first place simply to explain why the Master was decaying and simply didn't regenerate. (BTW it was never quite established at all in the TV series that Delgado was the final incarnation either-there could've been a few others after him for all we know)

While we're on the Master, there's precedent for this. The Master was given more regenerations at some point during the Time War, otherwise Yana would've been another stolen body and not regenerated into Simm. Simm could've likewise regenerated if he chose to. It's not entirely clear however if the "End of Time" body could, though.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah the one thing that bothered me about the Master's resurrection in "The End of Time" and his "kewl" powers is that it was never really explained why they had to go through that elaborate ritual. All that was stated was that his DNA was contained or whatever in his ring and they needed a human to complete the ritual. I think it was a little complicated and convuleted process. I understand that there was no body for the Master to regenerate from and yes if he does return in the Moffat era it will be interesting to see how it happens.

 

[FrankR]

^
Does no one else agree that the Doctor being immortal would undermine the show?

There was nothing in SJA that said the Doctor was immortal.
And even if there was; Doctor3 said something like:
"baring accidents a time lord can live forever". Which sounds like Time Lord immortality was long ago established.

In any event this is a line written in a spin-off show, and it really did sound like the Doctor was pulling Clyde's leg. In the end it doesn't matter. Even RTD has said he doesn't think it will stick.

 

[SeerSGB]

Cute throwaway line. It was fun, and isn't that all that matters? Let the writers write and if they stick to the old one or the new one, as long as the show stays fun and entertaining who gives a hang.

 

[Jimmy_C]

507 is 39 times 13 lives. Just saying.

 

[Guartho]

Does no one else agree that the Doctor being immortal would undermine the show?

I don't. Even if the Doctor has limitless regenerations, he still won't be immortal. I imagine there are plenty of ways to damage a Time Lord beyond his ability to regenerate. I don't think there was anything wrong with the pre-limit, 'barring accidents we can live forever, days and I don't think there's anything wrong with returning to them.

 

[The]

The line will be decidedly swept away years from now, just like how RTD has done Robert Holmes Deadly Assassin line.....and Azmael's final 13th incarnation death in Twin Dilemma.....and The Doctor being faced with death in Mawdryn Undead when they needed to use his remaining eight lives.....and all the times The Master was trying to get The Doctor's remaining regenerations (1970's/1980's/1990's).....or when The Valeyard was described as coming from somewhere between the Doctor's twelfth and final 13th incarnation.....or when the 8th Doctor said, point-blank, that he has thirteen lives.....and when, you know, it was a fact of the show for thirty-five years.

But, hey, it's RTD, right? So, what everyone has done before is irrelevant. Right?

 

[Photoman15]

Well, maybe 39 Time Lords gave their regenerations to The Doctor as he used The Moment to seal the Time War.

 

[JoeZhang]

The line will be decidedly swept away years from now, just like how RTD has done Robert Holmes Deadly Assassin line.....and Azmael's final 13th incarnation death in Twin Dilemma.....and The Doctor being faced with death in Mawdryn Undead when they needed to use his remaining eight lives.....and all the times The Master was trying to get The Doctor's remaining regenerations (1970's/1980's/1990's).....or when The Valeyard was described as coming from somewhere between the Doctor's twelfth and final 13th incarnation.....or when the 8th Doctor said, point-blank, that he has thirteen lives.....and when, you know, it was a fact of the show for thirty-five years.

But, hey, it's RTD, right? So, what everyone has done before is irrelevant. Right?

Well it's irrelevant is that if the show is still popular that the 13 limit means jack-shit and more broadly in that it's a kid's TV show and not something that's actually real. I could understand the anger of some if they suddenly changed the Doctor in a paedophile who kidnapped and raped children and used the TARDIS to travel back in time to help Hitler with the holocaust - but the 13 limit? It's something completely trivial in the context of making a good show.

 

[The]

Certainly it's trivial! My point was, just because RTD tried to change it on a whim doesn't mean it matters. There's a lifetime of the Thirteen limit in the show Doctor Who, and a single, joking line of RTD's in a spin-off kid's show. So, it's irrelevant what he said...

 

[Admiral_Young]

The line was a joke!!!

 

[Skellington]

My thoughts on the regen limit:

In The Deadly Assassin there's a limit of twelve. In Mawdryn Undead it's revealed that they can be transferred, and in The Five Doctors it's revealed that the life cycle of a Time Lord can be renewed (, thus taking weight from Borusa's scheme, I guess).

On the basis of the above it appears that either:
(i) the Doctor's life cycle was renewed in the Time War and he has either eight or nine regens left, depending on whether you count the Ten-to-Ten one or
(ii) he has zero, one or two regens left depending on factors such as whether any were taken from him in Mawdryn Undead and whether the Ten-to-Ten one counts.

A scenario where a life cycle consists of a "charge" or allowance of twelve regenerations is, I think, pretty much consistent with both The War Games ("We live forever, barring accidents.") and The Deadly Assassin. Of course, previous episodes have made it clear that the Doctor's personal timeline can be changed. (The "time eddy" in The Five Doctors threatening Five's existence by capturing Four, the Master's assertion in the same story that he can kill earlier incarnations of the Doctor, Six's mistaken conclusion in The Two Doctors that Two has been killed, the retconning of Susan's invented word TARDIS into the Time Lord vernacular...) Basically, the show has a long, long history of treating the past as malleable.

 

[Samurai8472]

The line was a joke!!!

Sadly your cry will go unnoticed. Even Russell said that fans tend to take some things as gospel while disregarding other stuff.

But some people do get tremendously worried by that figure, don’t they? As if when we get to the end of the thirteenth Doctor’s time, the BBC are gonna cancel the series, regardless of how well it’s doing.
They do, I know. When they came over here to launch “The Eleventh Hour”, I went along to this screening in LA and journalists put their hands up, and one of the first questions was, “What will happen when he reaches the thirteenth regeneration?”



There’s a fascinating academic study to be made out of how some facts stick and some don’t – how Jon Pertwee’s Doctor could say he was thousands of years old, and no-one listens to that, and yet someone once says he’s only got thirteen lives, and it becomes lore. It’s really interesting, I think. That’s why I’m quite serious that that 507 thing won’t stick, because the 13 is too deeply ingrained in the public consciousness. But how? How did that get there? It’s fascinating, it’s really weird. Anyway, that’ll be my book in my retirement!