Why doesn't Star Trek have an OCS like system where a person doesn't have to go through the academy but can become an officer?
Why Doesn't Star Trek Have...
- Thread starter CuttingEdge100
- Start date
Who says they don't? In actuality, we've only been exposed to a few officers and the manner in which they became commissioned. There was nothing to contradict the idea that some of the other hundreds of officers we've seen on the different ships, stations, etc. went to OCS rather than the Academy. In my own personal canon, I always imagined some did.
Indeed, in TOS McCoy did not attend Starfleet Academy. This is a reflection of the fact that military medical officers attend civilian medical school and are given an officer's rank when they enlist. Unfortunately, modern day Trek did away with this, having referances "Starfleet Medical School" and Trek XI even showed McCoy at the Academy for some reason.
For that matter, modern day Trek pretty much has everyone attending Starfleet Academy, and the San Fransisco campus at that. Hell, even the enlisted attend the Academy grounds in San Fransisco for their training.
During TOS the only two people we're sure went to the academy were James Kirk and Gray Mitchell, Spock is a maybe for OCS, his education would seem to suggest he possessed a degree in sciences.
McCoy it would be easier to see in a OCS environment, than in the academy.
It was unclear concerning the other officers. Scotty would be a good choice for, if not OCS, then officer's training school. He was apparently a Engineer prior to joining Starfleet (OA).
An argument could be made for Uhura being former enlisted, she knew how to fix the interior of her panel and but stated she hadn't done so in years. According to my father, officers don't fix anythings, they break things and the enlisted personnel then fix them.
Uhura (at least Nichols) was in her mid thirties during TOS, that a bit old to be a Lt. But it's perfect for talented enlisted who advanced to the rate of a mid level petty officer, went to officer's training school, and emerged as a ensign at about age thirty.
McCoy it would be easier to see in a OCS environment, than in the academy.
It was unclear concerning the other officers. Scotty would be a good choice for, if not OCS, then officer's training school. He was apparently a Engineer prior to joining Starfleet (OA).
An argument could be made for Uhura being former enlisted, she knew how to fix the interior of her panel and but stated she hadn't done so in years. According to my father, officers don't fix anythings, they break things and the enlisted personnel then fix them.
Uhura (at least Nichols) was in her mid thirties during TOS, that a bit old to be a Lt. But it's perfect for talented enlisted who advanced to the rate of a mid level petty officer, went to officer's training school, and emerged as a ensign at about age thirty.
There is the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences It might be the current version of "Starfleet Medical School."
Good point - Spock probably went to Starfleet Academy as he had more knowledge of academy practices than McCoy and in "The Apple" knew how much Starfleet had invested in him. We do know for sure he didn't go to the Vulcan Science Academy.
There was that 17 or 18 year old yeoman that Rand tried to set Charlie up with in "Charlie X". Perhaps she just enlisted and didn't go to the academy?
There was that 17 or 18 year old yeoman that Rand tried to set Charlie up with in "Charlie X". Perhaps she just enlisted and didn't go to the academy?
He was already a qualified doctor. Presumably if someone similar joined one of the armed forces today, they would go through some form of officer training.
Yes I think full Starfleet Acadamy training involves degree-level education, probably with minor and major disciplines, in conjunction with officer training. Some people, like Spock and McCoy gain their degree level training elsewhere and then just go through officer training, presumably in a year or so. In NuTrek, it isn't very realistic that McCoy, who was already a fully-qualified doctor, would spend 3 years as a cadet.
I think Rand is the only enlisted crewman who goes on to become a full officer. She states in Flashback that it took her two years to make ensign, although it isn't clear when she decided to undertake that career path (post STIV). Roddenberry envisaged that all the crew were trained astronauts so they would have sufficient technical knowledge to fix stuff, although enlisted crew probably do most of the work normally.
Trek tended to be quite snobbish and rarely featured any enlisted personnel doing anything much at all, particularly in its later incarnations. For example there is absolutely no reason why Wesley needs to be an officer to fly the ship. At other times, characters outside the chain of command, like 7 of 9 were given considerable authority without any formal rank.
Chapel was also an officer who appeared to have degree level education but no formal Starfleet officer training. Although it's non-canon, it has been suggested that she was a 'brevet' - a provisional ensign, much like Wesley I suppose, who was later promoted formally. She was a full lieutenant by the time she qualified as an MD but given the timescale, she must have been training to be a doctor during TOS.
I think Rand is the only enlisted crewman who goes on to become a full officer. She states in Flashback that it took her two years to make ensign, although it isn't clear when she decided to undertake that career path (post STIV). Roddenberry envisaged that all the crew were trained astronauts so they would have sufficient technical knowledge to fix stuff, although enlisted crew probably do most of the work normally.
Trek tended to be quite snobbish and rarely featured any enlisted personnel doing anything much at all, particularly in its later incarnations. For example there is absolutely no reason why Wesley needs to be an officer to fly the ship. At other times, characters outside the chain of command, like 7 of 9 were given considerable authority without any formal rank.
Chapel was also an officer who appeared to have degree level education but no formal Starfleet officer training. Although it's non-canon, it has been suggested that she was a 'brevet' - a provisional ensign, much like Wesley I suppose, who was later promoted formally. She was a full lieutenant by the time she qualified as an MD but given the timescale, she must have been training to be a doctor during TOS.
My point is it is an integral part of his TOS backstory that he did not attend Starfleet Academy, and therefore he should not have been there in Trek XI. I don't think Nero killing George Kirk is going to have an impact in McCoy's Starfleet training.
To the contrary, it seems that STXI goes out of its way to prove that McCoy did not go through the normal Starfleet Academy - that he graduated just as quickly as the superstar James T. Kirk.
Nowhere in TOS is it indicated that McCoy wouldn't have spent X amount of time at the Academy; indeed, TOS might play out with him going through the full four or five years. But STXI does the realistic thing where an academically educated specialist doesn't just waltz into a starship, but has to take some formal training first - less than non-academicians, but nevertheless. In this case, it apparently amounted to three years; perhaps McCoy in the movie was something of a slacker...
STXI is compatible with TOS in this. But McCoy going through five years of Academy training after making MD, or McCoy going through eight years of Academy training that included him becoming MD, would also be compatible with TOS. After all, TOS told us squat about McCoy's story of life. We didn't even learn his age! (We only got that retroactively from "Encounter at Farpoint", and some might argue the figure we were given is off by a decade...)
Timo Saloniemi
Nowhere in TOS is it indicated that McCoy wouldn't have spent X amount of time at the Academy; indeed, TOS might play out with him going through the full four or five years. But STXI does the realistic thing where an academically educated specialist doesn't just waltz into a starship, but has to take some formal training first - less than non-academicians, but nevertheless. In this case, it apparently amounted to three years; perhaps McCoy in the movie was something of a slacker...
STXI is compatible with TOS in this. But McCoy going through five years of Academy training after making MD, or McCoy going through eight years of Academy training that included him becoming MD, would also be compatible with TOS. After all, TOS told us squat about McCoy's story of life. We didn't even learn his age! (We only got that retroactively from "Encounter at Farpoint", and some might argue the figure we were given is off by a decade...)
Timo Saloniemi
Why is this unfortunate? With as vast an organization as Starfleet is, and with as many personnel as it employs, I don't see the problem with having a medical school run by the organization itself. Clearly, Crusher and Bashir attended this school, and both also demonstrate that they recieved the full Academy training, as well. Is there anything in an ep or movie somewhere to suggest that in the 24th century, ALL commissioned medical officers went through the full four-year academy and attended Starfleet Medical? McCoy is an example of a 23rd-century medical officer who didn't do those things, so why can't we assume that (in both centuries) there are simply multiple avenues through which a medical officer could earn his/her commission?
As for Trek XI... eh, whatever. It IS a divergent continuity, so I don't think it's such a stretch to say that things like this went differently (especially compared with some of the other "stretches" in the film!
). I don't remember the bolded part... was that established in any particular ep or movie?
As to the rest, it's true that pretty much every character who talks in detail about their officer training says that they went to the SF campus. However, it should be noted that not even close to every main Starfleet officer character throughout the four Trek series (not counting ENT since it took place before TOS and before there was a UFP, so their training methods could have been quite different) talked about their training in enough detail to confirm for certain that they went to San Francisco. Granted, the way people discuss "the academy" does tend to suggest a single location, and THAT I would agree is unfortunate. With how big Starfleet is and how much higher the percentage of officers vs. enlisted seems to be compared to the modern US military, it does seem silly that there would be just this one facility in this one city on this one planet. Also, the Federation itself is huge. It makes much more sense to me to say there are several academies, all of them together comprising "Starfleet Academy". Each would offer roughly the same curriculum, providing access to academy training throughout the Federation, rather than making someone who wants to attend but lives out in the fringes come all the way to Earth.
McCoy in the alternate universe of the resent movie is a harder to explain, prior to finishing his third year of the academy he possessed the rank of lieutenant commander. McCoy's age, I believe, was never mentioned on screen. The actor Karl Urban's age was 36 years and he wasn't playing a young man. McCoy was already a medical doctor when he entered the academy,
I propose that McCoy was previous (military) service, either in some sort of Starfleet auxiliary or in the United Earth uniformed services. By attending Starfleet Academy he would enter regular Starfleet.
As such he would have already held the previous rank (or rank equivalent) of lieutenant commander, after attending Starfleet Academy he would be a lieutenant commander in Starfleet
I propose that McCoy was previous (military) service, either in some sort of Starfleet auxiliary or in the United Earth uniformed services. By attending Starfleet Academy he would enter regular Starfleet.
As such he would have already held the previous rank (or rank equivalent) of lieutenant commander, after attending Starfleet Academy he would be a lieutenant commander in Starfleet
In TNG's The Drumhead Simon Tarses says his enlisted training was done at the Academy.
I think the service records for the TNG characters seen in Conundrum establish they attended the Academy.
In DS9 we know Sisko attended the Academy in San Fransisco, as he beamed home every night for dinner. Bashir went to "Starfleet Medical School." Nog was seen at the Academy, and Admiral Ross had his Academy diploma on display in his office. Memory is a bit faulty, but I think there were referances to both Daxs attending the Academy.
Voyager, both Janeway and Chakotay went to the Academy since they both knew Boothby. B'Ellanna dropped out of the Academy, Tom Paris and Harry Kim attended the Academy and Tuvok even instructed there.
As we can see, most characters in modern day Trek did indeed attend Starfleet Academy.
Starfleet need not do everything the same way that today's navies do, IMO--it has many similarities, but there are some differences after a few hundred years. It's possible that Starfleet Academy has training programs for both officers and enlisted, as well as something akin to OCS, with the fundamental differences being both the level/type of training as well as the duration for each.
The standard officer program could take four years, the OCS program could take three months (90-day wonders), while the basic enlisted program could take six weeks with advanced training taking place elsewhere perhaps...
The standard officer program could take four years, the OCS program could take three months (90-day wonders), while the basic enlisted program could take six weeks with advanced training taking place elsewhere perhaps...
Also, O'Brien in "Playing God" said he had received education at the Academy, long after the writers and costumers alike had accepted the fact that he had "always" been enlisted.
Doesn't mean the Academy would always equate San Francisco - there might be other campus areas there. Some things do suggest that all the officers get their training in one and the same facility, but enlisteds might have training facilities outside that city or off Earth. It wouldn't be a problem to accommodate all the officer training in a single city, but there might be capacity problems if all the enlisted training were crammed in the same place, too.
What's hard to explain about that? If he's a fully educated MD and surgeon when enrolling, Lieutenant Commander might be his graduating rank, and his seeming "third year" wouldn't be as cadet, it would be as instructor. People attending the Kobayashi Maru test aren't all undergrads in STII - why would they all be that in STXI?
The movie never establishes McCoy as "cadet". He's considered "senior medical officer" instead when the armada leaves Earth, and might be a postgrad just like Spock or Sulu. (Hell, Kirk himself could be postgrad, despite being called Cadet Kirk, since he's considered full Lieutenant when aboard Pike's ship; Kobayashi Maru was a postgrad test for Lieutenant (jg) Saavik in STII, and might always be a postgrad test, an elective one, explaining why Spock never took it.)
Funnily enough, we've never seen anybody go through that "standard" program...
Wesley Crusher dropped out before we could see how this would pan out. Nog got fast-tracked because of the war. Kirk was a special case in STXI, and may have been a special case in the original TOS continuity as well. And Merrick got booted in his fifth year, when taking some sort of a command-specific psych test - perhaps proving that command studies are postgrad stuff in the "normal" case.
Timo Saloniemi
For all intents and purposes, the majority of officers have gone through it and only those who haven't have naturally enough stood out.
But then one's studies likely do not conclude with graduation from the Academy, IMO. There could be a series of post-grad colleges for all branches of Starfleet for officers aspiring to advance to a certain position or beyond a certain rank. Exceptions, of course, would still exist for some officers who advance via appointment...
Troi studied psychology at the University of Betazed before joining Starfleet.
I think Starfleet has three branches: educational that deals with science subjects (including enlisted personnel) & degree level training (including Starfleet Medical); technical that deals with engineering subjects (including enlisted crew) & astronaut training; and officer training. A normal officer cadet will spend 3-4 years doing a combination of all three to varying degrees. If someone comes in with degree level training already, they could spend less time overall by concentrating on training from the other two branches. Post graduate training also exists.
I think Starfleet has three branches: educational that deals with science subjects (including enlisted personnel) & degree level training (including Starfleet Medical); technical that deals with engineering subjects (including enlisted crew) & astronaut training; and officer training. A normal officer cadet will spend 3-4 years doing a combination of all three to varying degrees. If someone comes in with degree level training already, they could spend less time overall by concentrating on training from the other two branches. Post graduate training also exists.
Well we know he's at least a little bit older (I'm guessing six or seven years) than Kirk and the others. At least that seemed to be implied (to me) in both STXI and TOS.
In "Meld" (VOY) Crewman Darwin (the guy who Lon Suder killed) turned down a commission to serve onboard Voyager.
