'Wagon Train to the Stars'? Really?

[Michael]

Most of you certainly are aware of the fact that Roddenberry initially pitched Star Trek to the studio as "Wagon Train to the stars". But was it merely a way to trick the bosses into buying a straight science-fiction show? Or was it Roddenberry's genuine intention to make Star Trek a sci-fi western?

I'm never really sure about that, because I acutally do see some western elements in a handful of episodes. And the concept is somewhat similar to that of Wagon Train.

So, what do you say? What are the western elements you see in Star Trek? Which episodes remind you of western plots?

 

[EnsignHarper]

A crash course in how TV shows are sold:

In the 60s, network executives would see 200+ pilots a year. They would get hundreds more of show pitches BEFORE pilots were even given green lights. So the meetings they would have with writers/producers/agents to hear show pitches were pretty quik affairs. As well as the time they could give to reading show ideas. To wit, pitching a show idea, you would (and still do) need a fairly quick summary of the show's premise - usually using another previous successful show as an example - especially if that writer/producer is relatively unknown.

Prime Example One: When Steven Bochco was pitching HILL STREET BLUES, he used as his sell line this: "BARNEY MILLER outdoors". now, BM was a half hour sitcom set on one indoor set, and HSb was to be an hour long drama, but it got his point across - this would be a realistic character driven cop show, shot outdoors. Once you get the network exec interested, THEN you can start filling in the details.

This happened with Roddenberry and Trek - once he got networks interested, THEN he could go into the details of a starship and whatever.

 

[Christopher]

Right. The whole "Wagon Train to the stars" thing has been greatly misunderstood. Roddenberry wasn't trying to make a space Western. He was trying to sell something unprecedented -- an adult-oriented science fiction series that wasn't an anthology -- to network executives, and so he pitched it to them with an analogy they could understand. He chose a Western analogy because Westerns were about a frontier setting, and simply because Westerns were all over the TV dial back then. Wagon Train was a very successful and famous show, in its seventh season (of eight) at the time Roddenberry was pitching ST to executives; if you're trying to sell something new, it's a good idea to liken it to something that's a proven success. Also, like many TV dramas at the time, Wagon Train had a pseudo-anthology format, with each episode focusing on a specific character within the wagon train; this reflected GR's intention to do ST in a similar anthology vein, with each episode dealing with a new planet, phenomenon, shipboard guest character, etc.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

description of TOS by Shatner in 1966

He chose a Western analogy because Westerns were about a frontier setting,

see this vintage Shatner interview on the TOS set of the episode TOS "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
taped just prior to Star Trek's NBC premiere in September 1966
http://startrekpropauthority.blogspot.com/2008/04/rare-1966-video-interviews-with-william.html

via
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3017671&postcount=31

 

[MANT!]

It still works, Defying Gravity was pitched as "Desperate Housewives in SPACE!!!"

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The original Star Trek very much bears the mark of TV westerns of the era - in characterisation, storylines and even some minor aspects of visual design (check out the boots and early landing party belts, or the use of the western backlot). Pitches to the networks by studio executives referenced the "indian half-breed" stereotype (such as the character "Mingo" played by Ed Ames on Daniel Boone) as the basis for Spock, and the similarities between the ship's doctor and characters like "Doc Adams" on Gunsmoke were remarked upon by GR himself.

This became less true as the first year of the show went on and it developed its own identity. But an episode like "Mudd's Women," for example, is only a little more than a western story about mail-order brides with the serial numbers filed off.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's just an easy form of shorthand. I confess I pitched a project as "BUFFY meets DEADWOOD" just a few weeks ago. And will even cop to once hyping an urban fantasy series as "90210 with pointed ears . . . "

 

[Green Shirt]

the character "Ringo" played by Ed Ames on Daniel Boone)

Can't you just hear Ed singing "In the town where I was born, lived a man who sailed to sea . . .".



Oh crap, its Mingo.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

All right, Mingo. The Merciless.

 

[danellis]

It still works, Defying Gravity was pitched as "Desperate Housewives in SPACE!!!"

Similarly The Gates is Desparate Housewives with vampires and werewolves.

dJE

 

[Greg Cox]

It still works, Defying Gravity was pitched as "Desperate Housewives in SPACE!!!"

Similarly The Gates is Desparate Housewives with vampires and werewolves.

dJE

Nah, that's just how they sold it. It was actually better than that.

(And it was more like "MELROSE PLACE with vampires, werewolves, and succubi.")

 

[Gary7]

Roddenberry had to pitch the show in a way that NBC executives could relate to, understand. Had he sold them his real intention, to show a realistic depiction of life among space faring humans in the 23rd century, they'd have laughed him out of the office.

"Wagon Train to the Stars" was his means to an end. And he had to keep the subterfuge going... from what records/transcriptions/interviews have told us, Star Trek was always on the verge of cancellation. There were many executives not all that pleased with Star Trek. It was too different from what they were used to. They didn't believe it would be embraced by a large enough audience to be popular/profitable. Roddenberry's departure weakened the cause for Star Trek by the 3rd season... they just couldn't keep it alive. And the nail in the coffin was moving it to Friday nights... ratings were sure to plummet, and give enough cause for cancellation--no last minute reprieves, no matter how much fan mail came in.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, if his intention was "a realistic depiction of life among space faring humans" he failed from the word "go." As an action/drama series with the color palette of a comic strip it was a lot closer to Wagon Train than it was to that.

 

[Christopher]

"Wagon Train to the Stars" was his means to an end. And he had to keep the subterfuge going... from what records/transcriptions/interviews have told us, Star Trek was always on the verge of cancellation. There were many executives not all that pleased with Star Trek. It was too different from what they were used to. They didn't believe it would be embraced by a large enough audience to be popular/profitable.

That's Roddenberry's version, in keeping with his tendency to paint the executives as the enemy. The version from Inside Star Trek by Solow and Justman is that the NBC executives loved having something as smart and sophisticated as ST on their network, which is part of why they kept it around for three years despite its considerable expense and poor ratings.

Well, if his intention was "a realistic depiction of life among space faring humans" he failed from the word "go." As an action/drama series with the color palette of a comic strip it was a lot closer to Wagon Train than it was to that.

Oh, that depends. It got more "comic"-like over time, but if you look at the early first season, it was very realistic by '60s standards (keeping in mind that the "realism" in '60s TV and film looked a lot more stagey and artificial than what we consider realism today). These weren't idealized space heroes, they were just ordinary soldiers and working stiffs who just happened to be working in space. In the early episodes there's all sorts of everyday texture -- banter among the crew, people eating and drinking coffee, workers doing maintenance in the background, etc. Compared to contemporary sci-fi like Lost in Space, early ST was very naturalistic.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I believe that Harlan Ellison has also commented that the "Wagon Train to the stars" line wasn't even Roddenberry's. It was Samuel L. Peeples, the writer of "Where No Man Has Gone Before" who came up with the phrase.

 

[Greg Cox]

Well, if his intention was "a realistic depiction of life among space faring humans" he failed from the word "go." As an action/drama series with the color palette of a comic strip it was a lot closer to Wagon Train than it was to that.

Well, you've got to put in its historical contrast. Compared to LOST IN SPACE or FLASH GORDON, the original TREK must have seemed "realistic."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, if his intention was "a realistic depiction of life among space faring humans" he failed from the word "go." As an action/drama series with the color palette of a comic strip it was a lot closer to Wagon Train than it was to that.

Well, you've put in its historical contrast. Compared to LOST IN SPACE or FLASH GORDON, the original TREK must have seemed "realistic."

One would have to file it as "an incredibly massive improvement" if nothing else.

That said, whatever interest in realism GR had really seemed to have been exaggerated for purposes of PR when the series first went on the air. For example, one thing striking in "The Making Of Star Trek" is how Whitfield reports the emphasis on collecting research from NASA, the Rand Corporation and so forth for various aspects of the show - and then in one specific instance after another comes the demurral that "well, that wasn't dramatic enough" or "it would confuse the audience" or "it would look odd" or "it would blow our budget" and "we'll simply assume that this or that problem will be solved by the time of our stories."

Their intent was to produce an entertainment series for television and they knew what the parameters of that were in terms of characterisation and story and format. They just wanted to do it at the most sophisticated level they could, which was more than ambition enough considering what the competition in the genre was often settling for.

 

[Gary7]

Well, if his intention was "a realistic depiction of life among space faring humans" he failed from the word "go." As an action/drama series with the color palette of a comic strip it was a lot closer to Wagon Train than it was to that.

Um... "his version". Who the heck knows how life will really be? We can't place judgment of failure or success until we're really there.

That's Roddenberry's version, in keeping with his tendency to paint the executives as the enemy. The version from Inside Star Trek by Solow and Justman is that the NBC executives loved having something as smart and sophisticated as ST on their network, which is part of why they kept it around for three years despite its considerable expense and poor ratings.

You are right... that was his version. I completely forgot about the Solow/Justman version of things. Who really knows what the truth is, at this point over 40 years later with only limited interviews with a subset of the people? The main reason for cancellation was indeed expense... based on what sponsors were paying in those days, Star Trek was a budget record breaker. And unfortunately, something as tenuous as the success of a TV show can be destroyed by one decision. There's no one simple answer for the demise of TOS... the ingredients to keep it going just weren't there. It's fun to think about what might have happened if they'd had the chance to go for another few more seasons. We'll never know...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, if his intention was "a realistic depiction of life among space faring humans" he failed from the word "go." As an action/drama series with the color palette of a comic strip it was a lot closer to Wagon Train than it was to that.

Um... "his version". Who the heck knows how life will really be? We can't place judgment of failure or success until we're really there.

This is true.

It's possible that "Lost In Space" is a realistic depiction of the future as well, since we haven't seen the future yet. "Tom Corbett," too.

As far as the "Roddenberry version" or the Justman/Solow version of the dealings between the network and the studio, I'll go with the latter - there's a great deal more to corroborate it in terms of how businesses actually work and people actually deal with one another. Roddenberry's version was self-serving us-versus-them stuff, real short on detail and long on self-congratulation.

 

[Gepard]

^I would point out that Lost in Space was set in 1999, and I'm pretty sure we've been there.

Of course, TOS had eugenically-created supermen take over the Middle East in 1996, so...