Curious about Janeway/Chakotay...

[Shatnertage]

I thought Janeway teared up a lot. Made the character more believable, I thought. You'd be pretty emotional with the weight of getting 140 people home on you all the time.

I thought her "Oh, Tuvok" moment when she sees Tuvok recording his log entry about her death and his friendship for her was particularly poignant--among others.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

I always thought the Janeway Chakotay thing was going to happen because when you're 8 or 9 someone telling you a made up story to tell you how much you love them is an incredibly romantic thing.

Hell, it still is. My heart breaks whenever I watch that part in Coda when he's crying over her body. And it breaks again during that first date you see of Chakotay's and Seven. I still yell "You promised!" Men.

I made my husband write me poetry when we were dating, engaged, and still because of the Angry Warrior tale. Using your own words is soooooooooo much more romantic than copying someone else's.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Thanks for pointing out that when Janeway LOST Kes through her evolution to a higher plane, when she lost EVERYONE during her own death, and when she lost Jaffen, she cried. She was on the verge of tears in "Prime Factors" when she realized Tuvok lied to her.

But I still think its significant that she wasn't losing anyone when she offered her hand to Chakotay on New Earth. Those tears she dropped meant something else, to the woman on the other side of the table.

OHHHHH! You were talking about this being the only time she cried "happy tears". Or at least "I'm touched" tears. Now I see your point.

BINGO!

 

[JustKate]

I saw the chemistry, and I can more or less understand why it captivated people but...I'm so glad it never happened. Well, actually, it would have been fine if it happened right at the end of the series (goodness knows it would have been better than the romance we got at the end of the series), but earlier on? I just cannot imagine how it would have turned out well - not with the sloppy way the writers handled the relationship and, for that matter, the sloppy way they handled most romantic relationships in Trek. There are exceptions, of course, but golly, not very many. So I really cannot imagine how the J/Cers can imagine it would have turned out well, either, but hey, that's what fanfic's for, right?

(BTW, hello to everybody who remembers me vaguely as somebody who used to visit here from time to time but then disappeared off the face of the BBS about six months ago!)

But I'm actually really happy with the friendship that did develop between them. It was unfortunately allowed to lapse in the later years of the series, but it was great to watch.

 

[kimc]

It was unfortunately allowed to lapse in the later years of the series, but it was great to watch.

That really is the great misfortune with J/C and "Endgame".

 

[AuntKate]

Clearly, the writers/producers were not prepared for the chemistry that was evident from the beginning between Mulgrew and Beltran. As usual in Star Trek, they let the "rules" of their approach overwhelm what could have been a delightfully complex addition to the story arc of a lengthy return to the AQ. Unresolved sexual tension is what has kept many series alive over the years, but this URT was denied, ignored, and forgotten instead of being used. I prefer to think that the relationship went under cover rather than being forgotten, however. The friendship was there till the end, no doubt, but TPTB decided not to show it on the screen. As for the C/7 cr*p, well, I think everyone realizes, by now, that it was a big mistake.

 

[firecrackerrrr]

Clearly, the writers/producers were not prepared for the chemistry that was evident from the beginning between Mulgrew and Beltran. As usual in Star Trek, they let the "rules" of their approach overwhelm what could have been a delightfully complex addition to the story arc of a lengthy return to the AQ. Unresolved sexual tension is what has kept many series alive over the years, but this URT was denied, ignored, and forgotten instead of being used. I prefer to think that the relationship went under cover rather than being forgotten, however. The friendship was there till the end, no doubt, but TPTB decided not to show it on the screen. As for the C/7 cr*p, well, I think everyone realizes, by now, that it was a big mistake.

I've always been a sucker for unresolved sexual tension. Love it! Mulder and Scully are the king and queen of that. But what chemistry between Chakotay and Janeway? I really wish I could see that. I can see terribly executed attempts at creating that but some actual chemistry? Frankly she had a TON more chemistry with the Michael guy or even Jeffen (sp). Hell even Kashyk comes to mind. I could actually see chemistry there. Believe it or not, I used to be a ~shipper~ for Chakotay and Janeway when I was a teen. I was looking through my old journals yesterday and I found a pic of them and I drew a heart around them but at some point as I was growing up and understanding what chemistry meant I stopped seeing that. I still see it in Mulder and Scully. I still see it in Buffy and Angel. But Chakotay and Janeway? I cringe at the attempts and well, Janeway is my favourite character (and I like Chakotay enough) so I hate cringing at scenes she's in.

 

[Shatnertage]

^^^I definitely see it, and I"m not usually looking for that kind of stuff. Like I said, the one where he gives her a rose and takes her on a moonlit holo-cruise after her brush with death seals the deal for me. That, and the one where he built her a bathtub so she could take relaxing soaks, gave her back rubs, and made up a legend to express how he felt about her.

Gotta go now--building my wife a bathtub. Don't think she'll like having to bathe in the yard, but hey, it's the thought that counts.

 

[firecrackerrrr]

That, and the one where he built her a bathtub so she could take relaxing soaks, gave her back rubs, and made up a legend to express how he felt about her.

THIS is the scene where I cringed harder than ever before in my entire life. I think there's permanent damage on my face in fact

 

[Shatnertage]

When I realized that it wasn't really "an old legend of my people," I actually liked it.

What exactly is so bad about the Woman Warrior speech?



The part that made me cringe was the plasma storm. Here's how it went on our ouch:

HER: What kind of storm is it?

ME: A plasma storm, I think.

HER: Why can't it just be a really big regular storm?

ME: Because it's Star Trek.

 

[Brit]

While I do understand not everyone sees the chemistry between Janeway and Chakotay, I see it, I saw it in "Caretaker" and I saw it in "Endgame." For me seeing that kind of chemistry between characters in books, television, and movies is highly enjoyable, and I hope I never grow out of that. I don't think I have to worry much though, I'm sixty-three. LOL

What I don't see is chemistry with Kashyk (and I know plenty of people that do and that is ok), and I think the whole arc with the Michael hologram rather insulting to the Janeway character.

Brit

 

[Guy Gardener]

Exodus said
Chakotay should have been paired up with the Engineer Ensign from Equinox.

Oh golly, on that I must agree, there was so much chemistry between Marla Gilmore and Chakotay that i just assumed they would be sharing Quarters after a brief courtship...

Actually? Would Janeway let Marla move into the X0's cabin?

Not because Kathy is all "delete the wife" mental, but the Equinox crewmen were all on punishment rations/duties/liberty... It hardly seems fair that of the 4 of them left over still locked up in the doghouse, when Marla begins honeymooning who are still forced to continue sharing a coffin sized closet between the drive plate and waste reprocessing... When Marla can just move into the second largest quarters on the ship because she lets the first officer play with her boobs... That they don't consider a similar exit strategy?

If the benefit of Marla seeking out a mate, and setting up house is an end around on Janeways sentencing, surely then that is an example which all of the remaining Equinox 5 should think about following suit?

They'd all be on the pull.

Though for Chuckles to over look her mass murderings, those would have to be some fucking spectacular boobies she's letting him snuggle into.

(And they probably are.)

 

[JustKate]

Guy, you have such an interesting brain. I have missed you. Really.

Clearly, the writers/producers were not prepared for the chemistry that was evident from the beginning between Mulgrew and Beltran. As usual in Star Trek, they let the "rules" of their approach overwhelm what could have been a delightfully complex addition to the story arc of a lengthy return to the AQ. Unresolved sexual tension is what has kept many series alive over the years, but this URT was denied, ignored, and forgotten instead of being used. I prefer to think that the relationship went under cover rather than being forgotten, however. The friendship was there till the end, no doubt, but TPTB decided not to show it on the screen. As for the C/7 cr*p, well, I think everyone realizes, by now, that it was a big mistake.

I've always been a sucker for unresolved sexual tension. Love it! Mulder and Scully are the king and queen of that. But what chemistry between Chakotay and Janeway? I really wish I could see that. I can see terribly executed attempts at creating that but some actual chemistry? Frankly she had a TON more chemistry with the Michael guy or even Jeffen (sp). Hell even Kashyk comes to mind. I could actually see chemistry there. Believe it or not, I used to be a ~shipper~ for Chakotay and Janeway when I was a teen. I was looking through my old journals yesterday and I found a pic of them and I drew a heart around them but at some point as I was growing up and understanding what chemistry meant I stopped seeing that. I still see it in Mulder and Scully. I still see it in Buffy and Angel. But Chakotay and Janeway? I cringe at the attempts and well, Janeway is my favourite character (and I like Chakotay enough) so I hate cringing at scenes she's in.

I have to disagree with Aunt Kate (no relation )- the writers wanted the chemistry to be there. Why else would they exploit it? But as so often happens with Trek (and with other TV, too, but Trek is prone to it), once they had it they didn't know what to do with it because they didn't want it to develop into a real romance because that would have meant Janeway and Chakotay wouldn't be free to have romances scattered across the quadrant. It's the same reason they subjected us to seven years of Troi/Riker, which is one of the reasons why it's possibly my least favorite romance in all of Trek. Yeesh.

I saw the chemistry between Janeway and Chakotay from the very beginning - but I saw it with dread and loathing, and my husband (who is not really very good at picking up this sort of thing) also saw it from the very beginning but saw it with dread and loathing, too. We both figured it would develop into one of those incredibly annoying Trek romances that never went anywhere (e.g., Troi/Riker and Picard/Crusher - yes, I know they eventually go somewhere, but never during the series) or - even worse - that it would come to dominate the show and thereby ruin it.

So I had the same reaction to those scenes that you did, Firecrackerrrrrr, but for different reasons. Interesting!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Within Voyagers huge cattlecall of non-writing-room authors are a small rebel cell of hopeless romantics who are trying to sneak their own agenda under the radar and pair off the command crew while the producers are asleep at the helm.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I was a late J/C bloomer. I saw the chemistry from Season 1 onward but didn't care much for the idea at first. What got me interested was the scene in "Timeless" where Janeway looks Chakotay in the eyes over a candlelit dinner and says "We've waited long enough." That moment got me thinking it would be a good idea.

I actually thought it was a pretty unique thought until I discovered the world of on-line J/C fanfiction. Whoah! Now that was a revelation...

Same thing happened to me.

As for J/7....wow, that is one line Janeway would never cross. Don't ask me why, but I do not see it happening. Ever.

She was motherly towards Seven. Motherly.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

I was a late J/C bloomer. I saw the chemistry from Season 1 onward but didn't care much for the idea at first. What got me interested was the scene in "Timeless" where Janeway looks Chakotay in the eyes over a candlelit dinner and says "We've waited long enough." That moment got me thinking it would be a good idea.

I actually thought it was a pretty unique thought until I discovered the world of on-line J/C fanfiction. Whoah! Now that was a revelation...

Same thing happened to me.

As for J/7....wow, that is one line Janeway would never cross. Don't ask me why, but I do not see it happening. Ever.

She was motherly towards Seven. Motherly.

Didn't Seven say the same thing? In Dark Frontier maybe? Or perhaps I have just been reading WAY too much fanfic lately . . .

 

[firecrackerrrr]

I think the whole arc with the Michael hologram rather insulting to the Janeway character.

Brit

You misunderstood me. I think the whole Michael thing was insulting to her character as well. I'm just saying the chemistry between the actors was better than with Chakotay in my opinion. I generally prefer a good story and I rarely "ship" characters unless there's some obvious, good chemistry and a good story to boot (again, Scully & Mulder). I wouldn't have minded seeing Janeway in an actual relationship at all, but definitely not with Chakotay unless they could establish it a bit better. I just rewatched the show so it's still very much fresh in my memory. Their scenes together are awkward at best. Not the good kind either. But that's just my opinion. I just don't see it. Again I actually liked the idea of them being together when I was 12 (my diary has a pic of them and a heart drawn around the picture ) but watching it now as an adult I facepalmed when I realized I liked the prospect of them together.

 

[firecrackerrrr]

I was a late J/C bloomer. I saw the chemistry from Season 1 onward but didn't care much for the idea at first. What got me interested was the scene in "Timeless" where Janeway looks Chakotay in the eyes over a candlelit dinner and says "We've waited long enough." That moment got me thinking it would be a good idea.

I actually thought it was a pretty unique thought until I discovered the world of on-line J/C fanfiction. Whoah! Now that was a revelation...

Same thing happened to me.

As for J/7....wow, that is one line Janeway would never cross. Don't ask me why, but I do not see it happening. Ever.

She was motherly towards Seven. Motherly.

I don't see how that's less plausible than Chakotay/Janeway. I don't count the books as canon (I don't think they're even considered canon since Paramount released some type of statement apparently). I mean don't get me wrong, I don't "ship" Janeway/Seven either but I could see more chemistry between those actors than Kate/Robert/Janeway/Chakotay. That said, I thank Gods above that Seven/Janeway OR Chakotay/Janeway never happened. The only reason why I'm more inclined toward Seven/Janeway is because I am a lesbian (don't mistake that for bias though. Again, favourite OTP = Scully&Mulder) but that doesn't mean I "ship" them. I most certainly don't. Unfortunately in those seven years they haven't really had anyone I could see Janeway with, though I wish that side was shown at least for a little while.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Thing is, when Janeway and Chuckles were stuck on that planet with no hope of rescue for 45 minutes, they had loads of chemistry. If they didn't do anything, they at least thought (and talked) about it.

That never happened with Seven, and Janeway never showed any interest in her in that manner.

Other than that, there really is no evidence supporting either ship. It's a matter of personal preference...unlike Trip/T'Pol, which, sadly, is canon.

 

[firecrackerrrr]

Thing is, when Janeway and Chuckles were stuck on that planet with no hope of rescue for 45 minutes, they had loads of chemistry. If they didn't do anything, they at least thought (and talked) about it.

That never happened with Seven, and Janeway never showed any interest in her in that manner.

Other than that, there really is no evidence supporting either ship. It's a matter of personal preference...unlike Trip/T'Pol, which, sadly, is canon.

I 100% agree with everything you said....minus the chemistry part so I guess that's less than 100% but generally I agree with "nothing to support either ship". I don't ship Seven/Janeway. I was just saying I saw a tiny tiny bit of something there whereas I see *nothing* between Janeway/Chakotay (the Seven/Janeway thing is most likely my own little dirty fantasy so you may disregard it as that. It's not a valid point really). That planet, the circumstances they were in - I get all that. But that doesn't make it any less cringeworthy

Now excuse me, I have fever and am delirious so perhaps I should respond to everything after the fever goes down as I highly doubt I'm making any sense right now

In short: Chakotay/Janeway - don't see it. Seven/Janeway - don't really see it but I saw potential that disappeared within 0.68 seconds. Michael/Janeway - wrong, but actors had chemistry. Kashyk/Janeway - funny but wrong, still had some chemistry. Then that guy from Workforce (Jeffen?) and Janeway - cute actually, but I'd have to see more to determine whether I'd like them together. That said, I wish there had been somebody for a little while. But there wasn't.