A woman without a man is nothing.

[Captrek]

Almost every major female cast member in the franchise has a love interest with a male cast member. Chapel and Spock. Crusher and Picard. Troi and Riker. Troi and Worf. Jadzia and Worf. Kira and Odo. Kes and Neelix. Torres and Paris. Seven and Chakotay. T’Pol and Tucker. NuUhura and NuSpock.

Janeway never had such a relationship with a male cast member, but then she was captain of the ship and married, so it would have been almost impossible.

Hoshi Sato also didn’t.

Have I missed anybody?

What accounts for this pattern?

If NuUhura-NuSpock doesn’t count, then Uhura also didn’t have such a relationship, which establishes (weakly, with only two data points) another pattern: the only non-captain females who weren’t put into such relationships are also the only two females who weren’t white.

 

[JiNX-01]

Almost every major female cast member in the franchise has a love interest with a male cast member. Chapel and Spock. Crusher and Picard. Troi and Riker. Troi and Worf. Jadzia and Worf. Kira and Odo. Kes and Neelix. Torres and Paris. Seven and Chakotay. T’Pol and Tucker. NuUhura and NuSpock.

Janeway never had such a relationship with a male cast member, but then she was captain of the ship and married, so it would have been almost impossible.

Hoshi Sato also didn’t.

Have I missed anybody?

What accounts for this pattern?

If NuUhura-NuSpock doesn’t count, then Uhura also didn’t have such a relationship, which establishes (weakly, with only two data points) another pattern: the only non-captain females who weren’t put into such relationships are also the only two females who weren’t white.

First of all, your thread title appears to belittle female characters who take an interest in male colleagues or get romantically involved with men.

Secondly, Janeway wasn't married. She was engaged when she left to track down the Maquis in "Caretaker." Later in the series, when communication with Earth became possible, she learned that her fiance had married someone else. Oh, and yes, it hurt.

Let's look at the relationships you cited:

Chapel: So she was infatuated with Spock. Nothing ever came of it and yet she apparently managed to move on and have a successful career as a doctor.

Kira: If I recall correctly, Kira was second in command to Sisko so she was in charge when he was away. She also struck me as pretty independent, and she certainly didn't see herself as nothing without a man. And BTW, Odo was in love with Kira years before they got involved. And when he returned to his people, she let him go and returned to the station where, with the disappearance of Sisko, she was in charge.

Crusher: Yes, she and Picard were close -- they had a history. But other than the off-screen marriage in "All Good Things" that ended in divorce, Crusher appears to be quite accomplished thoughout the series with being chained to a man.

Kes: Uh, she broke up with Neelix. Obviously she didn't think she was "nothing without a man" either.

Deanna: You appear to have confused her with her mother. Lwaxana was the man-hungry Troi.

Jadzia: Also an indepedent personality.

Torres: My goodness. Chief engineer aboard Voyager. Half Klingon. Again, I doubt she felt worthless without a hardbody in the room.

T'Pol: You cannot possibly be serious. Did you ever watch Enterprise? If you had, you would realize that T'Pol called the shots in her "needy" relationship with Tucker. She initiated any kiss they shared and she decided when it was time for them to have sex.

Seven: Since I can't explain where the relationship came from, I'm at a loss on this one.

NuUhura: I don't discount this one.

Hoshi: I don't recall her pining away for a man (tho' I did 'ship for Hoshi and Malcolm). I think given another 3 years of ENT, we would have seen her involved with someone, but not because she "needed" a man to complete herself.

So, explain something to me: Is a man without a woman "nothing"?

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I have to disagree with nuSpock/nuUhura...

It seemed to me the 'man' or 'Vulcan' without the 'woman' was nothing. She comforted him, not the other way around.

IIRC, Janeway wasn't married, but she was engaged; and she also had relationships that didn't much last.

Moreover, Carol Marcus seemed to have done pretty well, since she told Kirk she didn't want him to be involved in David's upbringing.

And Neelix acted like a whipped fool; he always got jealous when someone was interested in Kes...(He was nothing without her).

Moreover, Picard was all up in Beverly's business in Sub Rosa...

Riker seems to feel threatened when Troi had other men (or alleged men) in her life...i.e. Wyatt from 'Haven'...as well as 'The Child.'

So, it seems like the men had much need for the opposite sex; in some ways more than the women.

 

[RyuRoots]

I agree with JiNX-01 and Joel Kirk, they basically cover my thoughts on this. I find the topic title ignorant, stupid, and insulting at best. Besides which, nothing in the OP post proves such a ridiculous thing.

 

[Captrek]

Geez, people, the thread title is sarcastic. Do you really think I’m trying to say that a woman without a man is nothing and trying to cite as evidence the fact that a fictional TV franchise put all their female characters into romantic relationships?

“A woman without a man is nothing” is the apparent mindset of the people who made Star Trek, not my apparent mindset. I’m asking the question, why is it that the various people behind the various incarnations of Trek couldn’t (unless she was captain of the ship) have a white female character without having her hook up with (or at least pine for) one of the men on the show?

 

[sojourner]

Harry Kim pined for 7.
half the crew pined for T'Pol.
Considering how the math on partnering up works, I'd say just as many men were nothing without the women.

 

[Finn]

Is Hoshi and Janeway nothing? Sito did a great thing without the love in the equation. This thread is sinking fast.

 

[sonak]

I'm not sure if this thread is just meant to be troll-bait, but at any rate....


Kirk had tons of relationships
Riker had a past relationship with Troi and eventually marries
Worf has K'Ehleyer...K'ehler...K'alar, however you spell it, plus Troi temporarily and marries Jadzia
O'Brien had Keiko
Sisko had Kasidy
Odo had Kira
Bashir pined for Jadzia and later had Ezri



Hard-luck, not for lack of trying cases include
Scott, LaForge, Quark, Reed, etc.


This thread is really reaching


Obviously the real prejudice here is that against gay relationships...

 

[CaptainStoner]

Troi clearly didn't pine for Riker.
Crusher didn't pine for Picard.
Yar had no relationship, Data was a fluke.
Troi was only developing with Worf in the end of S7.
Uhura had no relationship.
Kira had no idea about Odo for the longest time, it was very much Odo pining for her.
Ensign Ro had no relationship.
Jadzia was relationship free for much of the show, again it was the male pining away.

The only pattern I'm seeing is lovelorn male characters. Too many Lukes, not enough Hans.

 

[Gary7]

I think the OP was indeed being sarcastic with the title... although the follow through in the post was rather shoddy with some blatant mistakes like... "Seven and Chakotay". Uh, was there like one episode where there was "something"? The only noteworthy relationship Seven had with anyone was the Doctor. And Chakotay did have a long term relationship with Janeway, albeit in the span of one episode (fast forwarded through time).


But as a lot of other people responded, I chime up as well--it was the MEN who were the ones who needed women more than the women needing men. The whole cluster of Star Trek series have showed some dating going on, as would be required where human beings across the long term are concerned. Star Trek is all about the human condition, in the setting of future space travel.

So, the implication that the Star Trek franchise seeks to hook up the notable women with men ends up falling a bit flat. Most of it's just dating, with only a rare few being far more serious (like Paris/Belana, Neelix/Kes, and O'Brien/Kako). Maybe a more enjoyable thread would be about which relationships seemed most real, or most entertaining.

 

[Shatnertage]

I am shocked...shocked that this thread has gotten to double-digits and no one has mentioned k/s.

 

[JustKate]

I am quite sure Captrek was merely making a little joke with the thread title, so I think those of you who took offense might be misreading him (assuming he's a him) just a bit.

But I still disagree with his basic premise. Almost all TV (even if we ignore soap operas, which I'd just as soon we do) from time to time plays the "Who can we pair off this season?" card. And some of them rely on it - need I say more than Friends? Even plot heavy shows such as Law & Order hint at this sort of thing from time to time.

But in any given season, you'll have shows in which some of the main characters pair off with each other, sort of pair off with each other, pair off and break up and pair off and break up and yatta yatta yatta, pair off with guest stars, pair off with a different member of the cast, almost pair off with each other but then they don't, for no better reason, apparently, than just to tick their fans off, etc., etc., etc.

And those who have pointed out that in Trek, it's usually not one-sided are also making a very good point. If the women are hungering after some man or other, the men have a yen for some woman or other as well. The Troi/Riker and Picard/Crusher in-love-with-each-other-when-it-suited-the-plot-but-ignored-when-it-didn't thing are not my favorite plot elements in Trek (I thought them ridiculous and needless and badly written, for the most part), but whatever they were, they were definitely mutual. You might just as well have titled the thread "A man without a woman is nothing."

 

[Too Much Fun]

I get the idea that there's too much matchmaking in TV shows. It's certainly not unique to Star Trek, I've noticed it and it's annoyed me for years. It seems most shows can't ever let main characters stay single very long...it's only a matter of time before they're paired with someone and often in a small ensemble show, it seems like they try just about every combination.

The best example is "Friends", where so many of them were paired off at different times that it got ridiculous. There's also "How I Met Your Mother", where even though I like the way each pairing was handled, on principle I object to the character of Robin being paired with two thirds of the male cast, because it's such lazy sitcom writing to pair a woman with every available man. I feel like the only reason she didn't get with Marshall is because he's married.

It would have been nice to see someone happily single or a man and a woman just happily friends on a Star Trek series. The Ezri/Bashir and Dax/Worf pairings seemed unnatural. They were all great as friends, but in both cases, the woman's sudden interest in the man kinda came out of nowhere.

There was some nice flirtation with Dax and Worf, but I didn't really get why one day she suddenly got incredibly jealous of him liking someone else and practically forced herself on him. Ditto with Ezri suddenly calling out for Julian in her sleep.

 

[DevilEyes]

Geez, people, the thread title is sarcastic. Do you really think I’m trying to say that a woman without a man is nothing and trying to cite as evidence the fact that a fictional TV franchise put all their female characters into romantic relationships?

“A woman without a man is nothing” is the apparent mindset of the people who made Star Trek, not my apparent mindset. I’m asking the question, why is it that the various people behind the various incarnations of Trek couldn’t (unless she was captain of the ship) have a white female character without having her hook up with (or at least pine for) one of the men on the show?

Almost every major female cast member in the franchise has a love interest with a male cast member. Chapel and Spock. Crusher and Picard. Troi and Riker. Troi and Worf. Jadzia and Worf. Kira and Odo. Kes and Neelix. Torres and Paris. Seven and Chakotay. T’Pol and Tucker. NuUhura and NuSpock.

Janeway never had such a relationship with a male cast member, but then she was captain of the ship and married, so it would have been almost impossible.

Hoshi Sato also didn’t.

Have I missed anybody?

What accounts for this pattern?

If NuUhura-NuSpock doesn’t count, then Uhura also didn’t have such a relationship, which establishes (weakly, with only two data points) another pattern: the only non-captain females who weren’t put into such relationships are also the only two females who weren’t white.

"A woman without a man is nothing" is the apparent mindset of you, rather than the people who made the shows. Otherwise, why not start a thread called "A man without a woman is nothing" and post this OP:

Almost every major male cast member on Trek has a love interest with a female cast member.
Kirk is pining for Rand, and has loads of other relationships with women. McCoy hooks up with Kirk's yeoman. Even Spock has a few romantic relationships in TOS and nuSpock hooks up with nuUhura. Picard and Crusher. Riker and Troi. Worf and K'Ehleyr/Troi/Jadzia/Ezri (that's one seriously needy Klingon) Data has feelings (!) for Yar for years after their one night stand. Sisko and Kasidy. Odo and Kira, after he's pined for her for years. Miles and Keiko. Bashir and Leeta/Ezri (after he's pined for Jadzia for years). Quark is unsuccessfully after Jadzia and then Ezri for years. Neelix and Kes. Paris and Torres. Chakotay and Seven, after he's pined for Janeway for years. Kim pines after Seven and hooks up with Ballard. EMH (a hologram!) pines for Seven. Trip and T'Pol. Archer and Erika.

What accounts for this pattern? Why did the creators of a fictional TV franchise need to put every male character into a romantic relationship (or unrequited love) with a female character?

------------------
Or... maybe it is because (bear with me)... hmmm... most people - male or female - tend to be interested in love and sex? Which doesn't mean that they are "nothing" without it. They can do their jobs and live their lives just OK without love. But they may just kinda like hooking up with that hot thing over there, you know?

As for Star Trek, the only issue here is why there aren't more gay relationships, not why people are interested in love/sex.

The only thing that's of interest here is how quick you are to proclaim the women to be weak because they are in relationships with men, but not the other way round. It shows a huge double standard. Please tell me how a relationship between a man and a woman means that she is "nothing without him" but doesn't mean that he is "nothing without her".

Are women not allowed to be strong and capable and have relationships? Many of Trek women certainly did all that. Kira and Jadzia were certainly always independent and strong and professional whether they were in a relationship or not, they weren't desperate to be with just any man, they were single at times and then when they fell in love with certain men, they had relationships; Kira went on being just as strong and good at her job after she had lost a man she deeply loved (twice - Bareil and Odo).

 

[Pauln6]

Will they won't they is the staple of many TV shows - it's a symptom that there are less female characters to spread around that almost all of them are paired off in Trek.

One of TOS Uhura's strengths was that she was allowed to get on with being an officer (the fact that this was partly due to racist attitudes still worked in her favour as she is one of the few female officers who hasn't dated badly).

While I thought it worked within NuTrek's plot, I felt it was shame that Uhura was the only principle female character that was featured and she was the object of lust/affection of both the male leads. Rather than give her more air time to showcase her skills as an officer, we get a lot more mush.

If Chapel and Rand feature I suspect and rather hope that no romantic sub-plots will be introduced for them. I'd rather Rand was just a kick-ass security trained character (since we don't have any security characters as they might impinge on Kirk's awesomeness, making that character a woman will produce an interesting dynamic).

 

[Nardpuncher]

Geez, people, the thread title is sarcastic. Do you really think I’m trying to say that a woman without a man is nothing and trying to cite as evidence the fact that a fictional TV franchise put all their female characters into romantic relationships?

“A woman without a man is nothing” is the apparent mindset of the people who made Star Trek, not my apparent mindset. I’m asking the question, why is it that the various people behind the various incarnations of Trek couldn’t (unless she was captain of the ship) have a white female character without having her hook up with (or at least pine for) one of the men on the show?

Almost every major female cast member in the franchise has a love interest with a male cast member. Chapel and Spock. Crusher and Picard. Troi and Riker. Troi and Worf. Jadzia and Worf. Kira and Odo. Kes and Neelix. Torres and Paris. Seven and Chakotay. T’Pol and Tucker. NuUhura and NuSpock.

Janeway never had such a relationship with a male cast member, but then she was captain of the ship and married, so it would have been almost impossible.

Hoshi Sato also didn’t.

Have I missed anybody?

What accounts for this pattern?

If NuUhura-NuSpock doesn’t count, then Uhura also didn’t have such a relationship, which establishes (weakly, with only two data points) another pattern: the only non-captain females who weren’t put into such relationships are also the only two females who weren’t white.

"A woman without a man is nothing" is the apparent mindset of you, rather than the people who made the shows. Otherwise, why not start a thread called "A man without a woman is nothing" and post this OP:

Almost every major male cast member on Trek has a love interest with a female cast member.
Kirk is pining for Rand, and has loads of other relationships with women. McCoy hooks up with Kirk's yeoman. Even Spock has a few romantic relationships in TOS and nuSpock hooks up with nuUhura. Picard and Crusher. Riker and Troi. Worf and K'Ehleyr/Troi/Jadzia/Ezri (that's one seriously needy Klingon) Data has feelings (!) for Yar for years after their one night stand. Sisko and Kasidy. Odo and Kira, after he's pined for her for years. Miles and Keiko. Bashir and Leeta/Ezri (after he's pined for Jadzia for years). Quark is unsuccessfully after Jadzia and then Ezri for years. Neelix and Kes. Paris and Torres. Chakotay and Seven, after he's pined for Janeway for years. Kim pines after Seven and hooks up with Ballard. EMH (a hologram!) pines for Seven. Trip and T'Pol. Archer and Erika.

What accounts for this pattern? Why did the creators of a fictional TV franchise need to put every male character into a romantic relationship (or unrequited love) with a female character?

------------------
Or... maybe it is because (bear with me)... hmmm... most people - male or female - tend to be interested in love and sex? Which doesn't mean that they are "nothing" without it. They can do their jobs and live their lives just OK without love. But they may just kinda like hooking up with that hot thing over there, you know?

As for Star Trek, the only issue here is why there aren't more gay relationships, not why people are interested in love/sex.

The only thing that's of interest here is how quick you are to proclaim the women to be weak because they are in relationships with men, but not the other way round. It shows a huge double standard. Please tell me how a relationship between a man and a woman means that she is "nothing without him" but doesn't mean that he is "nothing without her".

Are women not allowed to be strong and capable and have relationships? Many of Trek women certainly did all that. Kira and Jadzia were certainly always independent and strong and professional whether they were in a relationship or not, they weren't desperate to be with just any man, they were single at times and then when they fell in love with certain men, they had relationships; Kira went on being just as strong and good at her job after she had lost a man she deeply loved (twice - Bareil and Odo).

You can't accuse him of having the same mind-set of the very people he was criticizing just because he didn't start a thread with "A Man Without a Woman is Nothing" instead of the one he chose in order to make his(or her?) point.

 

[DevilEyes]

You can't accuse him of having the same mind-set of the very people he was criticizing just because he didn't start a thread with "A Man Without a Woman is Nothing" instead of the one he chose in order to make his(or her?) point.

I am not accusing him of having the same mindset as the very people he is criticizing.

I am saying that he is the one that has that mindset. Not those people. He exemplifies exactly the kind of thinking that he's projecting into them.

 

[Nardpuncher]

Well if we're already disagreeing about what you're disagreeing about this is going to go downhill fast.

What I meant was I think captrek is saying the creators and writers of Trek made most of the female characters on the show seem to need a male to complete themselves and that the creators and writers were doing a disservice to those female characters by doing that.
I'm confused as to how you think he's defending that attitude instead of pointing out that it's not the best way to portray women in Trek.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ Then you should read my post again. And the posts of a few other people on this thread who have said pretty much the same thing. It's all in there.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

It does seem to me that a lot of female characters are paired off with males simply because the writers have nothing better to do with them. For example, NuSpock and NuUhura. Spock suffers unbearable tragedy; generic close female friend suddenly developes love interest. Has anybody else seen this equation a million times before? If it happens once or twice it's fine, but it seems like damned near every female in the series (not counting original Uhura, I'm pretty sure) has been paired off with someone. It gets kind of uninteresting after the 5000'th sappy love episode.