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One thing missing from 'A Time To...'

The native americans were here first, all of the USA belongs to them

Native Americans are all American citizens, too. So, by definition, all of the United States belongs to them -- just like all of the United States belongs to European Americans, too.

And, by the way, what about people like me, who have both European and Native American ancestry? (I'm 1/8th Cherokee.)

You wouldn't exist if your (and my) ancestors hadn't come over here and pushed the Indians off their land. Native Americans are not United States citizens by choice, they're citizens due to the pure fact that their ancestors were conquered.

Well, when we start talking about the conquest of North America, we need to be very careful about which political actors we're talking about.

There were numerous Native American nations organized into distinct political units before Europeans began arriving. We'd call these political units "states" today, as they were independent political units with the legal right to make binding law on their members within the jurisdiction of their own territory.

By the time the Kingdom of England began to establish its colonies, however, most of the Native American nations had vacated the east coast of Central North America because of disease from prior European contact. So I for one reject the idea that the English did not have the right to set up its colonies.

I do think that the expansion of those colonies westward was illegitimate, but the fact remains that the English and their colonies did so.

Now, since I don't contest the right of the Thirteen Colonies to exist, and since I don't contest the right of the Thirteen Colonies to secede from the Kingdom of Great Britain (the Kingdom of England's successor state) because of British abuses against the colonies, I do think that the United States has the right to exist.

I do not think that the United States had the right to expand across all of Central North America the way it did -- or at least, that it did not have the right to do so without the consent of those living there.

If, for instance, the United States had chosen to expand by negotiating with Native American nations, treating them as equals, refusing to engage in discrimination, and offering them membership as states in the Union? That I think it would have been perfectly legitimate. Of course, had the U.S. followed that course, the make-up of the Union would be very different today -- there might be a State of Cherokee or a State of Choctaw, for instance, and Indian reservations wouldn't exist. But I think it would have been a legitimate form of expansion.

As for whether or not Native Americans are American citizens by choice -- well, at the time, there was controversy within the Native American nations about whether or not they should acquire U.S. citizenship. So it's really not fair to characterize them as all or mostly having been for or against it.

But I rather imagine that most Native Americans today would not want to give up American citizenship.

And I'd argue that the descendants of Europeans and Africans who came to North America have as much of a right today to Central North America as Native Americans do, just as I'd argue that Palestinians and Israelis both have a right to the Land of Palestine/Land of Israel. Two groups with centuries' worth of history on the land have an equal right to live there.

* * *

As for the Federation and Ba'ku...

There is no evidence that Ba'ku was a Federation planet.

None whatsoever.

There is evidence that it was within Federation space. That does not mean that it was Federation territory. The State of the Vatican City is within Italian territory, but that doesn't mean it is Italian territory -- it means it's surrounded by it.

The relevant question is, "Is Ba'ku (the planet) Federation territory, or is it merely surrounded by Federation territory?"

Since there's no evidence that the planet was Federation territory under Federation law -- because if it were, why would the Federation need to hide itself from its inhabitants? -- then it logically must be a sovereign and independent world that happens to be surrounded by Federation territory.
 
Sci

About the 'fountain of youth' planet:
"Picard says the planet is in federation territory. Dougherty specifically says the planet is the federation's, NOT only in federation territory (without being contradicted).
Picard never even tries to argue that the planet is independent of the federation (again, confirming it's NOT), and his prime directive argument is shot down immediately.
All these mean that canon establishes the planet as being federation real estate."
 
Sci

About the 'fountain of youth' planet:
"Picard says the planet is in federation territory.

Which is, again, not the same thing as saying that it is Federation territory.

Again, the relevant question is whether being "in" Federation territory means that it is surrounded by Federation territory or means that Federation territory actually extends to include the planet itself.

It would be perfectly reasonable, for instance, to interpret that line as meaning that, like any pre-warp planet located within Federation territory, Federation territory actually terminates at the planet's star system's Ort cloud but surrounds the system totally.

Dougherty specifically says the planet is the federation's

What he actually says was, "We have the planet, they have the technology." He's rather obviously speaking informally; it's unclear whether he means, "We have control over access to the planet" (which the Federation obviously does, since it controls the space surrounding it, irrelevant of whether or not its territory extends to include the planet itself) or "We own the planet."

Picard never even tries to argue that the planet is independent of the federation (again, confirming it's NOT),

That doesn't confirm a damn thing, it just means that INS's dialogue didn't solely consist of a legal briefing.

and his prime directive argument is shot down immediately.

Dougherty's contradiction of Picard's PD argument is rather obviously depicted as being legal nonsense. Picard simply chose to use force to preserve the PD rather than to try to continue arguing to enforce the PD.

All these mean that canon establishes the planet as being federation real estate."

No, a few ambiguous statements and a scene where a bad guy is depicted as being wrong do not constitute canonical evidence that Ba'ku is Federation territory.
 
Sci

Dougherty telling 'we (aka the federation) have the planet' and Picard not jumping immediately with 'but we do not; the planet is independent' or Dougherty saying 'the Prime Directive doesn't apply' and Picard not jumping immediately with 'but it does apply', instead recoursing to other, FAR LESS convincing arguments, are NOT 'ambiguous' evidence.

It's clear canon evidence that what Dougherty said aka the planet is NOT independent and the Prime Directive does NOT apply (meaning the planet is federation real estate) is the truth.
 
Sci

Dougherty telling 'we (aka the federation) have the planet' and Picard not jumping immediately with 'but we do not; the planet is independent' or Dougherty saying 'the Prime Directive doesn't apply' and Picard not jumping immediaely with 'but it does apply',

That's not evidence Dougherty was right -- Dougherty was depicted as being clearly in the wrong the whole time. That's evidence that Star Trek: Insurrection was a movie, not a legal briefing.

instead recoursing to other, FAR LESS convincing arguments,

That's a matter of Picard going to the fundamental principles that those laws are based upon (i.e., it's wrong to invade and steal other people's land) rather than on the actual laws themselves.

The fact that you consider the idea that it's wrong to forcibly relocate a population says a lot more about your values than it does about how convincing those arguments are.

It's clear canon evidence that what Dougherty said aka the planet is federatioin real estate is the truth.

No, it's clear that that's your interpretation of the evidence presented. And Dougherty never said it was Federation territory.
 
Sci

Non-sense.

Picard NOT calling up immediately Dougherty on his 'ambiguities' means they are not ambiguous at all.
Your interpretation will have Picard be the most inept diplomat ever to exist, not using binding laws to his advantage when they exist. And it ignores whatever canon material doesn't suit your views.

And your little comment about 'my values' regarding expropriation says more about you and how biased you are - and, consequently, how little your interpretation is worth.
 
Sci

Non-sense.

Picard NOT calling up immediately Dougherty on his 'ambiguities' means they are not ambiguous at all.
Your interpretation will have Picard be the most inept diplomat ever to exist, not using binding laws to his advantage when they exist.

That, or it means that Picard was trying to appeal to a fellow Federate's belief in the basic principles the Federation was founded upon in recognizance of the fact that if he did not do so, the admiral would simply continue to ignore Federation law with more legal mumbo-jumbo and issue illegal orders.

And your little comment about 'my values' regarding expropriation says more about you and how biased you are - and, consequently, how little your interpretation is worth.

:bolian: Always happy to hear an imperialist tell me I'm a horrible person.
 
Sci

Non-sense.

Picard NOT calling up immediately Dougherty on his 'ambiguities' means they are not ambiguous at all.
Your interpretation will have Picard be the most inept diplomat ever to exist, not using binding laws to his advantage when they exist. And it ignores whatever canon material doesn't suit your views.

That, or it means that Picard was trying to appeal to a fellow Federate's belief in the basic principles the Federation was founded upon in recognizance of the fact that if he did not do so, the admiral would simply continue to ignore Federation law with more legal mumbo-jumbo and issue illegal orders.

Already answered.

And your little comment about 'my values' regarding expropriation says more about you and how biased you are - and, consequently, how little your interpretation is worth.
:bolian: Always happy to hear an imperialist tell me I'm a horrible person.
So, Sci, in your opinion, expropriation is 'imperialist' and equivalent to 'stealing'.
Your view on this particular matter most likely came about due to your '(I'm 1/8th Cherokee.)'.
It also makes you a hypocrite - you must be aware that the infrastructure supportinng your standard of living implied a fair amount of expropriation - which doesn't stop you from profiting from it on a daily basis.

Of course, you throwing insults if you don't like what the other person says is most definitely your own fault - not related to your heritage in any way.
One of the reasons I keep my exchanges with you to a minimum.
 
And your little comment about 'my values' regarding expropriation says more about you and how biased you are - and, consequently, how little your interpretation is worth.

:bolian: Always happy to hear an imperialist tell me I'm a horrible person.

So, Sci, in your opinion, expropriation is 'imperialist' and equivalent to 'stealing'.

It would be more accurate to say that, in my opinion, "Person who think it's okay to invade a foreign people's land, use military technology to force your will upon them, and forcibly relocate them" is equivalent to "imperialist."

Your view on this particular matter most likely came about due to your '(I'm 1/8th Cherokee.)'.

Wow, you engage in stereotyping, too!

I didn't even know I was 1/8th Cherokee until I was 10 years old. I have virtually no cultural connection to the Cherokee whatsoever. I'm not a registered member of any Cherokee nation tribe. I never met my great-grandfather (the one who was Cherokee). In fact, I really don't even identify with my Cherokee heritage all that much -- if you were to ask me, I'd say I consider myself an English American first and foremost, because my English great-grandmother raised my grandmother, who raised my mother, who raised me, and because I actually had a relationship with her. In college, I actively refused to attempt to find documentation to prove that I'm 1/8th Cherokee, as many people recommended I do in order to secure grants/scholarships for Native American students, because I honestly felt that I don't really identify with that heritage, have never suffered any discrimination from it, and consider myself to be white; in my view, trying to take such scholarship money would be taking money meant for people who have been discriminated against, which has never happened to me. If I'm not explicitly reminded of it, I tend to forget my Cherokee heritage, frankly -- that's how little connection I feel towards it. Give me St. George's Cross any day of the week if you want me to start identifying myself ethnically.

I brought up the "I'm 1/8th Cherokee" thing because I'm honestly perplexed about what happens to people like me in a theoretical situation where most or all of the U.S.'s territory is just handed back to the Native Americans -- do people like me get to stay or do we have to leave, too?

I'm not opposed to imperialism because I'm 1/8th Cherokee, I'm opposed to imperialism because I happen to think that invading other peoples's lands is morally wrong.

It also makes you a hypocrite - you must be aware that the infrastructure supportinng your standard of living implied a fair amount of expropriation - which doesn't stop you from profiting from it on a daily basis.

I'm not sure I follow which argument you're trying to make here. Are you saying I'm a hypocrite because I benefit from a federal infrastructure that used eminent domain against its citizens, or are you saying I'm a hypocrite because I benefit from an economic infrastructure that engages in imperialism?

Please, clear up my confusion about which reason I'm a hypocrite.

(Either way, I'm fairly amused at the idea that a person is a hypocrite if they don't move out of a country that has done things they think are morally wrong. Apparently it's hypocrisy to want to live in a country you love even if you think it hasn't always done the right thing?)
 
:bolian: Always happy to hear an imperialist tell me I'm a horrible person.
So, Sci, in your opinion, expropriation is 'imperialist' and equivalent to 'stealing'.

It would be more accurate to say that, in my opinion, "Person who think it's okay to invade a foreign people's land, use military technology to force your will upon them, and forcibly relocate them" is equivalent to "imperialist."

Sci, if would have read my post addressed to you (and many previous ones), you would have known I advocate expropriating the ba'ku:
"And your little comment about 'my values' regarding expropriation says more about you and how biased you are - and, consequently, how little your interpretation is worth."

To which your answer was:
":bolian: Always happy to hear an imperialist tell me I'm a horrible person."

Your view on this particular matter most likely came about due to your '(I'm 1/8th Cherokee.)'.
Wow, you engage in stereotyping, too!
[....]
I'm not opposed to imperialism because I'm 1/8th Cherokee, I'm opposed to imperialism because I happen to think that invading other peoples's lands is morally wrong.
The level of hate you manifested toward expropriation could only have an irrational/emotional reason, NOT a logical one.
Your '(I'm 1/8th Cherokee.)' seemed to fit quite well. If it was not this reason, it was another of the same kind.

It also makes you a hypocrite - you must be aware that the infrastructure supportinng your standard of living implied a fair amount of expropriation - which doesn't stop you from profiting from it on a daily basis.
I'm not sure I follow which argument you're trying to make here. Are you saying I'm a hypocrite because I benefit from a federal infrastructure that used eminent domain against its citizens, or are you saying I'm a hypocrite because I benefit from an economic infrastructure that engages in imperialism?

Please, clear up my confusion about which reason I'm a hypocrite.[...]
You acted like a hypocrite because you violently condemned expropriation while enjoying its benefits.
 
:bolian: Always happy to hear an imperialist tell me I'm a horrible person.

Too funny. You do realize that you avatar is seen by the rest of the world as the foremost symbol of imperialism?

It's not about being a horrible person. It's about people having an honest disagreement about the meaning behind the movie. Which is muddled at best.
 
As usual I'm usual with these kinds of arguments, I'm with Sci 100% here, and to be completely honest, I'm baffled by how a person could feel any differently. The stuff being discussed couldn't possibly be anymore wrong IMO.
I take guys all think it was ok for the Chinese government to force people out of their homes so they could use the land for the Olympics?
 
As usual I'm usual with these kinds of arguments, I'm with Sci 100% here, and to be completely honest, I'm baffled by how a person could feel any differently.

Because the entire concept being reflected in the movie is the 20th century view of capitalism and how it relates to property ownership. Star Trek: The Next Generation takes place in the 24th century in a socialist/communist utopia. Where ownership of property doesn't seem to be a prime concern.

So we have hundreds... perhaps thousands of empty, habitable planets that the Ba'ku can live and carry on their culture. And there are only six hundred of them to boot. There is one planet in the known galaxy that has 'metaphasic' radiation that works the way that this one does.

It's pretty simple math honestly.
 
Right is not a matter of math. If two people decide it's OK to kill you for sport, is that OK? What about 100? 1000? A million? What's the minimum number of people required to be in favor of hunting people for sport?
 
Right is not a matter of math. If two people decide it's OK to kill you for sport, is that OK? What about 100? 1000? A million? What's the minimum number of people required to be in favor of hunting people for sport?

You really don't comprehend anything I write do you?

We have a movie trying to apply 20th century capitalistic values to a 24th century socialist/communist utopia. Values and morals are ever-changing in human society. What makes you think what is moral today is still going to apply three-hundred and fifty years from now?

The needs of the many anyone?
 
So, Sci, in your opinion, expropriation is 'imperialist' and equivalent to 'stealing'.

It would be more accurate to say that, in my opinion, "Person who think it's okay to invade a foreign people's land, use military technology to force your will upon them, and forcibly relocate them" is equivalent to "imperialist."

Sci, if would have read my post addressed to you (and many previous ones), you would have known I advocate expropriating the ba'ku:

From the Free Dictionary:

ex·pro·pri·ate (k-sprpr-t)
tr.v. ex·pro·pri·at·ed, ex·pro·pri·at·ing, ex·pro·pri·ates
1. To deprive of possession: expropriated the property owners who lived in the path of the new highway.
2. To transfer (another's property) to oneself.

You're describing more than just expropriation. You're describing going in to a foreign political entity's territory without its permission, abducting its citizens, and forcibly re-locating them in order to "expropriate" their land.

That whole process has a term: Imperialism. Using a cutsey term to describe part of that process to avoid using an accurate word to describe the whole of that process does not make it okay.

"And your little comment about 'my values' regarding expropriation says more about you and how biased you are - and, consequently, how little your interpretation is worth."

To which your answer was:
":bolian: Always happy to hear an imperialist tell me I'm a horrible person."

The level of hate you manifested toward expropriation

:guffaw:

The actual terms for what I was endeavoring to express there would be "amusement" and "condescension."

could only have an irrational/emotional reason, NOT a logical one.

:rolleyes:

Sit on the phone with a constituent calling to give you a fifteen-minute rant about the evils of eminent domain. That's hate born of an irrational reason.

I'm just saying it's wrong to invade and forcibly re-locate a foreign culture in order to take their land.

Your '(I'm 1/8th Cherokee.)' seemed to fit quite well. If it was not this reason, it was another of the same kind.

It was, indeed, another of some kind: The fact that I don't think invasion, occupation, and forced re-location of innocent people are morally justified things.

It also makes you a hypocrite - you must be aware that the infrastructure supportinng your standard of living implied a fair amount of expropriation - which doesn't stop you from profiting from it on a daily basis.
I'm not sure I follow which argument you're trying to make here. Are you saying I'm a hypocrite because I benefit from a federal infrastructure that used eminent domain against its citizens, or are you saying I'm a hypocrite because I benefit from an economic infrastructure that engages in imperialism?

Please, clear up my confusion about which reason I'm a hypocrite.[...]
You acted like a hypocrite because you violently condemned expropriation while enjoying its benefits.

Yes, you've said that. But I wanted to know which kind of expropriation I'm supposedly guilty of benefiting from: Expropriation of private property from fellow citizens, or expropriation of foreign territory from foreign cultures? Please, tell me, am I a closeted elitist or a closeted imperialist?

And why, by the way, can't a fellow condemn his culture's practices without -- I don't know, either living in the woods as a hermit or moving to another country? Am I not allowed to say that I don't in general agree with eminent domain without giving up electricity and highways? Am I not allowed to say I don't agree with imperialism without renouncing my citizenship? Are we only allowed to love and support our country if we think it's never done anything wrong now?

:bolian: Always happy to hear an imperialist tell me I'm a horrible person.

Too funny. You do realize that you avatar is seen by the rest of the world as the foremost symbol of imperialism?

Yes, I am.

As usual, my answer to that is a bit complicated.

First off, if you look closely at my avatar, you might notice that it has too many stars. My avatar is a Flag of the United States with 51 stars, a version proposed by the United States Army Institute of Heraldry for potential future use. Specifically, I use the 51-star flag as a subtle form of protest against what I consider to be the unjust treatment of the District of Columbia, whose residents outnumber those of the State of Wyoming yet have no voting representation in the United States Congress, and whose government's decisions are always subject to being overridden by Congress. (I considered adding a 56-star flag, to represent my opinion that the other 5 U.S. territories also so treated should be given statehood, but decided against it, because I don't know if it's necessarily clear whether membership in the Union is more popular in those territories than independence.)

So, it's already implicit in my avatar that I'm criticizing the United States for some unjust tendencies, too.

As for the generic criticism that the Flag of the U.S. is a symbol of imperialism -- my answer to that is that it is only thus because it has been stolen -- or, as one might say, "expropriated" -- for such purposes by imperialists. The Flag itself is a symbol of resistance to imperialism -- the United States, let us recall, is also a revolutionary country which overthrew its oppressive colonial masters. As such, I think it is incumbent upon anti-imperialists to re-claim the Flag of the United States as a symbol of resistance to imperial projects.

As usual I'm usual with these kinds of arguments, I'm with Sci 100% here, and to be completely honest, I'm baffled by how a person could feel any differently.

Because the entire concept being reflected in the movie is the 20th century view of capitalism and how it relates to property ownership.

No, it's a 24th/23rd Century view of foreign cultures' sovereignty and how it relates to whether or not other cultures have the right to militarily dominate them.

So we have hundreds... perhaps thousands of empty, habitable planets that the Ba'ku can live and carry on their culture.

Not really. One of the essential reasons they chose that planet was that it's very hospitable but virtually impossible to detect or reach because of the Briar Patch. I can think of no other planet in known space with that trait.

And, yeah, the Federation knows about them, but, from the Ba'ku's POV, the Federation is just one more foreign power that will one day fall and its knowledge of their location lost. Which is what they want: For the rest of the galaxy not to know where they are. Can't do that if you're sitting on a planet in the middle of normal space.

And, besides, none of that is even relevant. It's their world, they were living there before the Federation was even founded, and no one else has a right to tell a foreign culture where they may live.

That's the essence of the Prime Directive's original anti-imperialist motivation: That the Federation does not have the right to tell foreign cultures where or how they may live.
 
It would be more accurate to say that, in my opinion, "Person who think it's okay to invade a foreign people's land, use military technology to force your will upon them, and forcibly relocate them" is equivalent to "imperialist."

Sci, if would have read my post addressed to you (and many previous ones), you would have known I advocate expropriating the ba'ku:

From the Free Dictionary:

ex·pro·pri·ate (k-sprpr-t)
tr.v. ex·pro·pri·at·ed, ex·pro·pri·at·ing, ex·pro·pri·ates
1. To deprive of possession: expropriated the property owners who lived in the path of the new highway.
2. To transfer (another's property) to oneself.

You're describing more than just expropriation. You're describing going in to a foreign political entity's territory without its permission, abducting its citizens, and forcibly re-locating them in order to "expropriate" their land.

That whole process has a term: Imperialism. Using a cutsey term to describe part of that process to avoid using an accurate word to describe the whole of that process does not make it okay.



:guffaw:

The actual terms for what I was endeavoring to express there would be "amusement" and "condescension."



:rolleyes:

Sit on the phone with a constituent calling to give you a fifteen-minute rant about the evils of eminent domain. That's hate born of an irrational reason.

I'm just saying it's wrong to invade and forcibly re-locate a foreign culture in order to take their land.



It was, indeed, another of some kind: The fact that I don't think invasion, occupation, and forced re-location of innocent people are morally justified things.



Yes, you've said that. But I wanted to know which kind of expropriation I'm supposedly guilty of benefiting from: Expropriation of private property from fellow citizens, or expropriation of foreign territory from foreign cultures? Please, tell me, am I a closeted elitist or a closeted imperialist?

And why, by the way, can't a fellow condemn his culture's practices without -- I don't know, either living in the woods as a hermit or moving to another country? Am I not allowed to say that I don't in general agree with eminent domain without giving up electricity and highways? Am I not allowed to say I don't agree with imperialism without renouncing my citizenship? Are we only allowed to love and support our country if we think it's never done anything wrong now?



Yes, I am.

As usual, my answer to that is a bit complicated.

First off, if you look closely at my avatar, you might notice that it has too many stars. My avatar is a Flag of the United States with 51 stars, a version proposed by the United States Army Institute of Heraldry for potential future use. Specifically, I use the 51-star flag as a subtle form of protest against what I consider to be the unjust treatment of the District of Columbia, whose residents outnumber those of the State of Wyoming yet have no voting representation in the United States Congress, and whose governments' decisions are always subject to being overridden by Congress. (I considered adding a 56-star flag, to represent my opinion that the other 5 U.S. territories also so treated should be given statehood, but decided against it, because I don't know if it's necessarily clear whether membership in the Union is more popular in those territories than independence.) So, it's already implicit in my avatar that I'm criticizing the United States for some imperial tendencies, too.

As for the generic criticism that the Flag of the U.S. is a symbol of imperialism -- my answer to that is that it is only thus because it has been stolen -- or, as one might say, "expropriated" -- for such purposes by imperialists. The Flag itself is a symbol of resistance to imperialism -- the United States, let us recall, is also a revolutionary country which overthrew its oppressive colonial masters. As such, I think it is incumbent upon anti-imperialists to re-claim the Flag of the United States as a symbol of resistance to imperial projects.

Because the entire concept being reflected in the movie is the 20th century view of capitalism and how it relates to property ownership.

No, it's a 24th/23rd Century view of foreign cultures' sovereignty and how it relates to whether or not other cultures have the right to militarily dominate them.

So we have hundreds... perhaps thousands of empty, habitable planets that the Ba'ku can live and carry on their culture.

Not really. One of the essential reasons they chose that planet was that it's very hospitable but virtually impossible to detect or reach because of the Briar Patch. I can think of no other planet in known space with that trait.

And, yeah, the Federation knows about them, but, from the Ba'ku's POV, the Federation is just one more foreign power that will one day fall and its knowledge of their location lost. Which is what they want: For the rest of the galaxy not to know where they are. Can't do that if you're sitting on a planet in the middle of normal space.

And, besides, none of that is even relevant. It's their world, they were living there before the Federation was even founded, and no one else has a right to tell a foreign culture where they may live.

That's the essence of the Prime Directive's original anti-imperialist motivation: That the Federation does not have the right to tell foreign cultures where or how they may live.

I like the answer for the flag. :techman:

As far as only the Federation knowing their location: hogwash. The Son'a know where they're at, they create ketracel white for the Dominion, so the Dominion may have an inkling. Plus you have a thousand Starfleet crew that knows where the Ba'ku are at.

It won't be a secret for long. :lol:
 
That's the essence of the Prime Directive's original anti-imperialist motivation: That the Federation does not have the right to tell foreign cultures where or how they may live.

Not if you watch the original Star Trek. The Prime Directive was there to keep Starfleet crews from interfering with the cultural development of worlds. The Prime Directive of The Next Generation is a massive change to the meaning of the original idea. The Starfleet of the 24th century used the Prime Directive as a 'catch-all' for any situation they didn't want to involve themselves in.
 
I like the answer for the flag. :techman:

Thank you much. It's my earnest hope that I will one day live to see the District of Columbia granted statehood, its residents given equal representation in the U.S. Congress, and the U.S. Constitution amended to end federal authority over its internal affairs. I want to live under this 51-star Flag one day. :bolian:

(Or, if not a 51-star Flag, a 52- to 56-star Flag, presuming the other territories hold popular referendums in support of statehood. :) )

As far as only the Federation knowing their location:

That wasn't exactly my point. My point was that they originally chose that planet in order to hide from the galaxy. Yes, they've been exposed to a few, but from their POV, those few are going to die one day and the knowledge of their location lost -- provided they can keep their world, of course.

The Son'a know where they're at,

And the Son'a are all about to die within a few decades.

they create ketracel white for the Dominion, so the Dominion may have an inkling.

Unlikely. The Son'a wanted the planet for themselves, and only shared knowledge of its properties with the Federation because the UFP controlled the space around the Briar Patch. I doubt the Son'a would want the Dominion to know about it -- they'd lose out on their attempt to gain a Fountain of Youth and they know it.

Plus you have a thousand Starfleet crew that knows where the Ba'ku are at.

More like roughly 400 Starfleet crew, several hundred of whom may not actually know what sector they are in if their superiors don't tell them and the computer does not give them security clearance for that information. And all of whom can be sworn to secrecy if the Federation agrees to respect the Ba'ku's desire for privacy for their culture.

ETA:

That's the essence of the Prime Directive's original anti-imperialist motivation: That the Federation does not have the right to tell foreign cultures where or how they may live.

Not if you watch the original Star Trek. The Prime Directive was there to keep Starfleet crews from interfering with the cultural development of worlds.

Which is a deeply anti-imperialist sentiment. "You can't interfere" is another way of saying, "You don't get to tell a foreign culture how or where to live." (And you can't forcibly relocate someone without interfering in their development.)
 
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