Is the great rift repairable?

[darkwing_duck1]

Limiting myself to the sci-fi genre: people consider films like 2001, Alien, Forbidden Planet, etc to be classics, even though they are arguably "dated" in terms of their look and feel because they have some sort of substance beneath, and, yes, they ARE classics in the visual sense.

All of the movies you listed are excellent. However, none of the previous Trek films come close to matching their quality. Be honest here, None of the previous ten Star Trek movies are considered true classics by anyone save for people who occupy Star Trek forums. Wrath of Khan is the only Trek film I see occasionally referenced in pop culture and that's primarily due to, "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" rather than how well the film holds up. We genuinely love these movies (well some of them anyhow) because we're fans, but no one outside the main fanbase talks about TWOK, TVH, or FC anymore.

While it's hard to find "mainstream" top 100 lists that have more than a short handful of sci fi films at all (AFI's list has 4, none Trek), among Sci Fi films, the older Trek movies do quite well: The Top 100 poll for Sci Fi at Rotten Tomatoes, for example, has THREE of them listed (TWOK, FC, and TVH), and nary a mention of 09 Trek.

http://www.flixster.com/movie-list/ofcs-top-100-sci-fi-list (quoting the Tomatometer list)

This one has TWOK, TUC, and 09, but 09 is well down the list beneath the first two: http://totalscifionline.com/features/3809-the-100-greatest-sci-fi-movies

This one has TWOK, TUC, TSFS, INS, NEM, TFF but no 09: http://www.flickchart.com/Charts.aspx?genre=Sci-Fi+Action

This one only gives a nod to TVH: http://www.filmsite.org/sci-fifilms4.html

The biggest constant I'm seeing is that TWOK is highly regarded as a sci-fi film at least, consistently in the top 1/3 on the list.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Khan's backstory could certainly use a lot of revision, so there's an opportunity for the new guys.

In fact, Khan could be reinvented into a far more dangerous character with potential for a number of movies. Suppose that rather than being dispatched by Kirk with a club over the head in less than an hour he'd managed to begin recreating an empire on one or several colony worlds.

Khan's kind of a "Mirror Buck Rogers," really.

Dennis, mark your calendar. This is a good idea, even if it means further tampering with the backstory that the two universes supposedly share.

 

[bismarck_1892]

But it didn't work for me.

They didn't need it to. They could lose a few of the hard core fans in exchange for greatly expanding the audience. They lost a few thousand, gained a few million. Win.

You're assuming that the people who saw the movie are now fans, and not just casual viewers who saw the shinny adverts and decided to take a look. If we're making big assumptions here, then my assumption is that the movie did not gain any new fans, but was casually watched by many movie goers. That's good for the studio (short term), but may not necessarily be good for the longevity of the franchise.

 

[Squiggy]

But it didn't work for me.

They didn't need it to. They could lose a few of the hard core fans in exchange for greatly expanding the audience. They lost a few thousand, gained a few million. Win.

You're assuming that the people who saw the movie are now fans, and not just casual viewers who saw the shinny adverts and decided to take a look. If we're making big assumptions here, then my assumption is that the movie did not gain any new fans, but was casually watched by many movie goers. That's good for the studio (short term), but may not necessarily be good for the longevity of the franchise.

It's better than the alternative.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I just posted this in another topic but it's relevant here too.

Gross (world) Budget Earnings Ratio
TWOK $96,800,000.00 $12,000,000.00 8.07
TVH $133,000,000.00 $24,000,000.00 5.54
TSFS $87,000,000.00 $18,000,000.00 4.83
TMP $139,000,000.00 $35,000,000.00 3.97
TUC $96,900,000.00 $27,000,000.00 3.59
FC $150,000,000.00 $46,000,000.00 3.26
GEN $120,000,000.00 $38,000,000.00 3.16
XI $385,680,447.00 $140,000,000.00 2.75
TFF $70,200,000.00 $30,000,000.00 2.34
INS $117,800,000.00 $70,000,000.00 1.68
NEM $67,132,826.00 $60,000,000.00 1.12


http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/StarTrek.php

 

[Brolan]

I just posted this in another topic but it's relevant here too.

Gross (world) Budget Earnings Ratio
TWOK $96,800,000.00 $12,000,000.00 8.07
TVH $133,000,000.00 $24,000,000.00 5.54
TSFS $87,000,000.00 $18,000,000.00 4.83
TMP $139,000,000.00 $35,000,000.00 3.97
TUC $96,900,000.00 $27,000,000.00 3.59
FC $150,000,000.00 $46,000,000.00 3.26
GEN $120,000,000.00 $38,000,000.00 3.16
XI $385,680,447.00 $140,000,000.00 2.75
TFF $70,200,000.00 $30,000,000.00 2.34
INS $117,800,000.00 $70,000,000.00 1.68
NEM $67,132,826.00 $60,000,000.00 1.12


http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/StarTrek.php

Thats a neat chart, but I used your numbers to come up with a different one. One that I think will carry more weight with Paramount.

Gross (world) Budget Gross earnings
XI $385,680,447.00 $140,000,000.00 $245,680,447.00
TVH $133,000,000.00 $24,000,000.00 $109,000,000.00
TMP $139,000,000.00 $35,000,000.00 $104,000,000.00
FC $150,000,000.00 $46,000,000.00 $104,000,000.00
TWOK $96,800,000.00 $12,000,000.00 $84,800,000.00
GEN $120,000,000.00 $38,000,000.00 $82,000,000.00
TUC $96,900,000.00 $27,000,000.00 $69,900,000.00
TSFS $87,000,000.00 $18,000,000.00 $69,000,000.00
INS $117,800,000.00 $70,000,000.00 $47,800,000.00
TFF $70,200,000.00 $30,000,000.00 $40,200,000.00
NEM $67,132,826.00 $60,000,000.00 $7,132,826.00

 

[kkozoriz1]

If rate of return isn't important to you, that's fine.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I just posted this in another topic but it's relevant here too.

Gross (world) Budget Earnings Ratio
TWOK $96,800,000.00 $12,000,000.00 8.07
TVH $133,000,000.00 $24,000,000.00 5.54
TSFS $87,000,000.00 $18,000,000.00 4.83
TMP $139,000,000.00 $35,000,000.00 3.97
TUC $96,900,000.00 $27,000,000.00 3.59
FC $150,000,000.00 $46,000,000.00 3.26
GEN $120,000,000.00 $38,000,000.00 3.16
XI $385,680,447.00 $140,000,000.00 2.75
TFF $70,200,000.00 $30,000,000.00 2.34
INS $117,800,000.00 $70,000,000.00 1.68
NEM $67,132,826.00 $60,000,000.00 1.12


http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/StarTrek.php

Thats a neat chart, but I used your numbers to come up with a different one. One that I think will carry more weight with Paramount.

Gross (world) Budget Gross earnings
XI $385,680,447.00 $140,000,000.00 $245,680,447.00
TVH $133,000,000.00 $24,000,000.00 $109,000,000.00
TMP $139,000,000.00 $35,000,000.00 $104,000,000.00
FC $150,000,000.00 $46,000,000.00 $104,000,000.00
TWOK $96,800,000.00 $12,000,000.00 $84,800,000.00
GEN $120,000,000.00 $38,000,000.00 $82,000,000.00
TUC $96,900,000.00 $27,000,000.00 $69,900,000.00
TSFS $87,000,000.00 $18,000,000.00 $69,000,000.00
INS $117,800,000.00 $70,000,000.00 $47,800,000.00
TFF $70,200,000.00 $30,000,000.00 $40,200,000.00
NEM $67,132,826.00 $60,000,000.00 $7,132,826.00

You aren't using inflation adjusted numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film_series)#Grosses

 

[kkozoriz1]

Not necessary for calculating return on investment. Interesting to see the inflation adjusted figures though.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

You're assuming that the people who saw the movie are now fans...

I don't care. They went to see the movie. Most people who went to see "The Dark Knight" don't give a damn about Batman, either - surprise!

The movie was a huge hit, and those of us who liked it get to look forward to more because of that.

Those who didn't like it and are waiting for the return of oldTrek should not hold their breath.

 

[DonIago]

For better or worse, the studio is going to look at the aspects of the film that they thought enabled it to perform well and then attempt to replicate those aspects going forward. And really, they're a -business-, so who can blame them?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

You're right.

The point of Star Trek or any other bit of popular culture is not to recruit and help maintain some kind of in-group fandom. The movie entertains a lot of people, the folks who made it do well as a result, and we'll get more.

 

[bismarck_1892]

You're assuming that the people who saw the movie are now fans...

I don't care. They went to see the movie. Most people who went to see "The Dark Knight" don't give a damn about Batman, either - surprise!

The movie was a huge hit, and those of us who liked it get to look forward to more because of that.

Those who didn't like it and are waiting for the return of oldTrek should not hold their breath.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Can't compair Batman to Star Trek. Desperation is not exactly the best way for fans to express themselves. Shouldn't just accept something because it has the Star Trek title.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

I wouldn't be so sure, I keep hearing that Enterprise, for example, has actually started to pick UP fans on DVD.

As much as I loved Enterprise, can you give us any proof of that being true?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I wouldn't be so sure, I keep hearing that Enterprise, for example, has actually started to pick UP fans on DVD.

As much as I loved Enterprise, can you give us any proof of that being true?

I don't have any hard numbers, no. But I've heard people say that they either missed it or ignored it when it was on the air only to find it on DVD and became fans. Some of them indicated that they managed to get friends into the show via the same route.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I don't have any hard numbers, no. But I've heard people say ...

Say no more.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I have no reason to beleive that they are lying.

 

[Brolan]

They aren't lying, they are believing what they want to believe. Just like this thread; I had no idea, until now, that some people believed XI was a colossal failure and Paramount would see it as such and go back to old Trek.

 

[Davros]

There's a rift?

 

[DonIago]

Indeed. The simple answer is the great isn't repairable because you can't repair what doesn't exist.