One thing missing from 'A Time To...'

[Destructor]

I was just reading the excellent 'Fade Out', the Michael Piller document about the creation of 'Insurrection'. I'm not finished yet, and will put my thoughts in the appripriate forum when I do, but as it happens I am also reading the 'A Time To...' series, which covers the gap between Insurrection and Nemesis. And it occurred to me that Insurrection should really have had some fallout that is not covered by the books. Was Picard Court Martialed? Did anyone in the Federation face justice for their actions in the Briar Patch? What happened to the Baku planet, did any Ferengi try and steal their rings? Perhaps the answers to these questions are not interesting enough to justify a whole novel, but given the ATT series focus on the Enterprise falling out of favour with the Federation powers that be, you'd think some of these topics would have been at least touched on.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Was Picard Court Martialed? Did anyone in the Federation face justice for their actions in the Briar Patch? What happened to the Baku planet, did any Ferengi try and steal their rings? Perhaps the answers to these questions are not interesting enough to justify a whole novel, but given the ATT series focus on the Enterprise falling out of favour with the Federation powers that be, you'd think some of these topics would have been at least touched on.

Memory Beta: Following these events, Starfleet established Outpost 40 in the Patch and maintained a small task force to protect the Ba'ku planet and the immediate area. (TNG video game: Hidden Evil) In 2376, the Patch was the site of a further battle between Starfleet and Son'a forces as they attempted to take control of the planet. (TNG video game: Armada)

 

[Sxottlan]

^ I don't think that's what the OP was looking for.

The lack of fallout from Insurrection in the books has only helped make the film feel more inconsequential and isolated.

In many ways, that's fine. I thought the film was a disaster, but I think it would be one of the rare terrible Trek film and/or episode whose impact would be lessened by a novel sequel. Usually when you get a novel or story sequel to a terrible episode, all it does is serve to remind me how awful the original source was. This would actually help in my opinion. That's why I liked seeing the holographic ship in Abyss.

Maybe if the film hadn't been as toothless and been more of a Starfleet "civil war" as it supposedly once was (I haven't read that rough draft of Piller's book), they wouldn't have needed the incident in the first "A Time to..." book to alienate the Enterprise from Starfleet.

 

[Thrawn]

Well, there's also the fact that the A Time To series starts *three years* after Insurrection already.

 

[BillJ]

Memory Beta: Following these events, Starfleet established Outpost 40 in the Patch and maintained a small task force to protect the Ba'ku planet and the immediate area. (TNG video game: Hidden Evil) In 2376, the Patch was the site of a further battle between Starfleet and Son'a forces as they attempted to take control of the planet. (TNG video game: Armada)

How much is it costing the Federation to protect those six hundred people?

Whoops! Opened the Insurrection can of worms again.

 

[Stevil2001]

To be fair-- by that point they're also stopping someone else from getting their hands on the metaphasic whatsits. Which could be bad if you were, like, the Dominion. (That mission in Armada is super-easy, anyway.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why would Picard be court-martialed? He didn't *lose* the Enterprise, it was only damaged.

As for the 'insurrection': Since it was obvious that Picard was in the right, and that Section 31...ah, Admiral Dougherty* was not, then I don't see the need for one there either.

*True, Section 31 was never identified in the film - only the novels - but it was so obvious that Dougherty was one of them anyway.

 

[ryan123450]

Sounds like we need a novel that follows up on the Baku and Picard's relationship with what's her name. That's a pretty sparsely chronicled era anyway.

 

[BillJ]

As for the 'insurrection': Since it was obvious that Picard was in the right, and that Section 31...ah, Admiral Dougherty* was not, then I don't see the need for one there either.

Picard was violating orders before he even knew what was going on (but he's Picard). Seems Section 31 has become Star Trek's boogey man.

 

[BillJ]

To be fair-- by that point they're also stopping someone else from getting their hands on the metaphasic whatsits. Which could be bad if you were, like, the Dominion. (That mission in Armada is super-easy, anyway.)

I'm not sure I understand the downside if another race gets hold of 'metaphasic radiation'? They live longer?

*Most Klingons live short lives due to battle.
*Romulans probably have life spans equivalent to Vulcans, which is twice that of humans.
*Not sure if the lifespan of a Dominion shape-shifter was ever given but they seem pretty long lived.
*Jem'Hadar life spans are pretty short due to battle.

I thought it was a pretty silly plot point in a film full of silly plot points. Was Federation citizens living longer going to somehow give them a tactical advantage over their foes?

 

[elaithin]

I think the point was that a 'fountain of youth' is one of the most persistent themes in storytelling.

 

[BillJ]

I think the point was that a 'fountain of youth' is one of the most persistent themes in storytelling.

But the inclusion of the 'fountain of youth' angle doesn't make the story automatically good or make sense 'in universe'.

 

[T'Girl]

Was Picard Court Martialed?

Why would Picard be court-martialed?
Since it was obvious that Picard was in the right ...

That's what a court martial would have determined.

 

[Destructor]

Why would Picard be court-martialed? He didn't *lose* the Enterprise, it was only damaged.

As for the 'insurrection': Since it was obvious that Picard was in the right, and that Section 31...ah, Admiral Dougherty* was not, then I don't see the need for one there either.

Following orders has nothing to do with right and wrong. If Dougherty was acting on order from the Federation council, which it seemed he was, then Picard was duty-bound to follow the orders of a superior officer. He didn't and there should at the very least be a court to determine if he was fit to continue his duty.

Well, there's also the fact that the A Time To series starts *three years* after Insurrection already.

Only by choice of the authors/editor. There's no reason it couldn't have followed on directly from Insurrection and dealt with the fallout from those events. In fact, it would tie in very neatly with the 'fall from grace' plotline of that series.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Assuming Admiral Dougherty was Section 31 just because he was a bad guy is kind of silly...despite it having a semblance of their modus operandi. Picard's love interest was named Anji. I always wondered if he had taken that long extended short leave off to spend with her or not. Picard violated orders and doing so exposed a conspiracy that originated with the Federation Council it's self if we are to believe the Admiral. I would think that a court martial would reveal this conspiracy to the public and bad press would make Starfleet look bad in the public light. I'm sure that there were some kind of internal investigations conducted to root out the conspirators and deal with them in the appropriate manner.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Picard's love interest was named Anji.

Anij.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Just because Dougherty *said* he was acting on orders from the Federation Council doesn't mean he actually was. The kind of person we know him to be, makes it very likely he was a liar, because murderers find it easy to lie.

I also find it likely that, as subsequent novels (non-canon though they may be) have said, Dougherty is Section 31. The things he was doing in this film are *exactly* what Section 31 would do. The Federation itself is above that sort of murderous intent, but Section 31 is not.

 

[Christopher]

Following orders has nothing to do with right and wrong. If Dougherty was acting on order from the Federation council, which it seemed he was, then Picard was duty-bound to follow the orders of a superior officer. He didn't and there should at the very least be a court to determine if he was fit to continue his duty.

Well, "at least" would be a disciplinary or investigative hearing to determine whether a court-martial was warranted. There's a tendency to confuse the two, as seen in "The Measure of a Man" -- it said that a court-martial was routine when a captain lost a ship, but in reality it's just the investigative hearing that's routine and a court-martial only happens if evidence of negligence is found. I had a hell of a time rationalizing that in The Buried Age.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yet we've seen bad Admiral's before in TNG...such as the Admiral that was manipulating Ro in the Bajoran affair, would you say that he was operating under Section 31's influence? I'm not saying that it's not possible. I'm saying that Section 31 doesn't have to be involved in every single questionable operation that Starfleet undertakes. Hell it could have been just a normal Starfleet Intelligence operation.

 

[BillJ]

Just because Dougherty *said* he was acting on orders from the Federation Council doesn't mean he actually was. The kind of person we know him to be, makes it very likely he was a liar, because murderers find it easy to lie.

I also find it likely that, as subsequent novels (non-canon though they may be) have said, Dougherty is Section 31. The things he was doing in this film are *exactly* what Section 31 would do. The Federation itself is above that sort of murderous intent, but Section 31 is not.

Or it could be that he was simply a high ranking officer with some pull within the Federation Council and was able to push through the project based on "the needs of the many (Federation/Son'a) outweighing the needs of the few (Ba'ku)".

Where do you come off calling Dougherty a 'murderer', since we have no background on the character outside of Insurrection.