"I like the new movie better..."

[Captain Mike]

...all the comments about them were rather harsh, and downright crude and condescending from fans to non fans that actually thought this movie was the greatest film that came out.

A posture of condescension on the part of the socially awkward outsider toward people and things that are mainstream and popular is something that many of us (mea culpa) adopt as an emotional defense during early adolescence...and sometimes return to under certain circumstances.

Yeah I know, but some were going so far as saying the reviewer should watched all the episodes (even when major points in the article stated he was a fan) and/or that "they" should be more "open-minded" ....sounds to me like the pot calleth the kettle black, especially the "JJ" fans who never saw an episode of the franchise at all....

 

[sonak]

...all the comments about them were rather harsh, and downright crude and condescending from fans to non fans that actually thought this movie was the greatest film that came out.

A posture of condescension on the part of the socially awkward outsider toward people and things that are mainstream and popular is something that many of us (mea culpa) adopt as an emotional defense during early adolescence...and sometimes return to under certain circumstances.

My impression was that many of the critics of the film were disappointed STAR TREK FANS in the first place. I doubt that they decided to become fans of something as mainstream as Star Trek, just to turn on it because Star Trek XI was such a popular success. And I don't think they'd make the effort at review videos and stuff if they didn't have an interest in the first place.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

...sounds to me like the pot calleth the kettle black, especially the "JJ" fans who never saw an episode of the franchise at all.

Well, I tend to agree that any movie which requires that you first watch or read anything in order to enjoy it is rather lame. I have no objection to any of the supposed "plot problems" in the Abrams Trek movie, but don't consider that the answer to someone who objects to something is "you have to read that prequel comic" (don't remember the name of it; I never read it).

Why should someone who enjoys a movie be expected to pore over seven hundred hours (or seventy-nine) of previous material as a result?

 

[Alex1939]

A lot of my friends liked Star Trek 90210 and they hated all prior trek!

If more people like it than its betterer and Dennis wins! yay!

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Why should someone who enjoys a movie be expected to pore over seven hundred hours (or seventy-nine) of previous material as a result?

By the same token, why should fans of a franchise, whose years and years of faithful following of the material made the franchise possible to begin with be told that their interests no longer matter and that the only important thing is attracting the "nu fan"?

Why can't they make a film that pleases BOTH fandoms? One of the best received films in the series (IV) did that quite well.

 

[pookha]

as someone who grew up watching star trek and then the rest of the treks i didnt get from the movie at all that my interest in all of trek didnt matter.

i dont know in some ways i see this as someting similar to what sherlock holmes went through.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

Why can't they make a film that pleases BOTH fandoms? One of the best received films in the series (IV) did that quite well.

Quite so, but the answer is obvious:
1) Either they're too lazy to do so (because it would require a lot more research effort than they were willing to do)
2) Or they're just not intelligent enough to do so.

 

[Psion]

Or they made a film that touched all the bases they wanted touched. I didn't like the movie, but I'm not going to insist the film was the product of stupidity or indolence. For every hardcore Trekkie, there are five (no citation available) who liked the old show and watched it well enough to list the basic elements without being hardcore. These guys probably come from that intersection audience and they wrote a movie they'd enjoy.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

Are you saying they couldn't have made both audiences (fan and non-fan) happy? Are you basing this on their choice or their talent or their level of ignorance?

Frankly, I like the movie; I just thought if they'd have put a little more thought and effort into it that it really could've made everyone happy, even Warped9. Well, maybe not him, but certainly would've been a lot more old guys happier.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Are you saying they couldn't have made both audiences (fan and non-fan) happy? Are you basing this on their choice or their talent or their level of ignorance?

Frankly, I like the movie; I just thought if they'd have put a little more thought and effort into it that it really could've made everyone happy, even Warped9. Well, maybe not him, but certainly would've been a lot more old guys happier.

I liked the movie, but would have liked it MORE if they'd gone one way or the other. Either make a movie for the Roddenberry universe or have a clean break and do a full reboot. They hybrid approach in my opinion did the film great disservice because it INVITED the issues of canon and consistency into the debate.

 

[Captain Mike]

as someone who grew up watching star trek and then the rest of the treks i didnt get from the movie at all that my interest in all of trek didnt matter.

i dont know in some ways i see this as someting similar to what sherlock holmes went through.

I also grew up with it, and one of the impressions I got through its production AND just prior release was just the opposite even when I finally watched it. JUST as the trailer stated..."THIS is NOT your fathers STAR TREK!" It certainly wasn't the one that I watched either.

Or they made a film that touched all the bases they wanted touched. I didn't like the movie, but I'm not going to insist the film was the product of stupidity or indolence. For every hardcore Trekkie, there are five (no citation available) who liked the old show and watched it well enough to list the basic elements without being hardcore. These guys probably come from that intersection audience and they wrote a movie they'd enjoy.

I agree totally with everything you stated. I'll even go so far as saying that is where the rifts that have begun with most of the people on this forum.

Are you saying they couldn't have made both audiences (fan and non-fan) happy? Are you basing this on their choice or their talent or their level of ignorance?

Frankly, I like the movie; I just thought if they'd have put a little more thought and effort into it that it really could've made everyone happy, even Warped9. Well, maybe not him, but certainly would've been a lot more old guys happier.

Well sure. Just imagine if they did a little more research and put the "feeling" of the old show, instead of incorporating elements of Star Wars into it just to make it "HIP". I feel it could have been done. I mean look how much it made domestically and worldwide. I read some where that its budget took a big chunk out of that. Just imagine if they could have pulled in myself and others that feel the same way I do. I know I would have seen it in the theater numerous times, JUST like I did with ALL the rest.

 

[Captain Mike]

Are you saying they couldn't have made both audiences (fan and non-fan) happy? Are you basing this on their choice or their talent or their level of ignorance?

Frankly, I like the movie; I just thought if they'd have put a little more thought and effort into it that it really could've made everyone happy, even Warped9. Well, maybe not him, but certainly would've been a lot more old guys happier.

I liked the movie, but would have liked it MORE if they'd gone one way or the other. Either make a movie for the Roddenberry universe or have a clean break and do a full reboot. They hybrid approach in my opinion did the film great disservice because it INVITED the issues of canon and consistency into the debate.

What Canon?!?!?! This movie is a reboot or a re imagining in all sense of the word(s).

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Are you saying they couldn't have made both audiences (fan and non-fan) happy? Are you basing this on their choice or their talent or their level of ignorance?

Frankly, I like the movie; I just thought if they'd have put a little more thought and effort into it that it really could've made everyone happy, even Warped9. Well, maybe not him, but certainly would've been a lot more old guys happier.

I liked the movie, but would have liked it MORE if they'd gone one way or the other. Either make a movie for the Roddenberry universe or have a clean break and do a full reboot. They hybrid approach in my opinion did the film great disservice because it INVITED the issues of canon and consistency into the debate.

What Canon?!?!?! This movie is a reboot or a re imagining in all sense of the word(s).

Nope, it's a "quasi-reboot" based off of Prime universe characters, thus falling under the canon rules of that universe. One of the biggest violations of which is Spock NOT attempting to fix the temporal damage caused by Nero, which was his duty as a Starfleet officer (even retired). He violated the Temporal Prime Directive, as well as various sections of the "temporal displacement policy". That's the biggest plot hole.

If JJ had had the stones, he should have not invoked the Prime universe and simply done a reboot. He tried to have his cake and eat it too, and the result pissed off a lot of Prime Universe fans.

Well sure. Just imagine if they did a little more research and put the "feeling" of the old show, instead of incorporating elements of Star Wars into it just to make it "HIP". I feel it could have been done.

THIS.

Gritty cinematography, MTV/ADHD pacing, shaky cam, nauseating camera moves and lens flares are the hallmark of the Michael Bay school of bad filmmaking.

 

[number6]

Whatever, man.. It's kind of insulting to constantly insinuate that the only people that liked the new film weren't fans but simple minded people who are easily impressed with shiny objects. I am a lifeling fan of Star Trek, grew up with the original show and enjoyed much of what came after. There is nothing wrong with liking this movie. I came into it somewhat skeptical because it was going to be different and how much of that I was willing to live with as a fan, but I knew the work of the creative team and have enjoyed a lot of what they had to offer. They proved to be the right thing Star Trek needs going forward and I look forward to seeing what they do next and hope it comes out well and satisfies the fan part of me.
I guess I am not as pissed off about stylistic choices and cinematic technique, as long as it serves the story and the artistic intent of the film, which it does.

They took a unique (albeit safe) way of having their cake and eating it too: Creating their own universe for their Kirk and Spock to live in while honoring the original show and what came after. Now that the torch couldn't be more officially passed, I want to see where Abrams and team take it.
Now I don't like this "better" than TWOK, TMP or even FC, but I would put it up in their ranks for the Star Trek films I am most likely to throw into the DVD player or watch with friends.

And you know what?? For those who are new to the concept of Kirk and Spock, If someone decided to check out the original show because they liked this film better, why should I care that they liked this film better than TWOK? That's just petty.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Whatever, man.. It's kind of insulting to constantly insinuate that the only people that liked the new film weren't fans but simple minded people who are easily impressed with shiny objects.

Never said that. I LIKE the movie, better than I do at least two of the original ones, but I'm not going to call bad things good even if I like them. JJ's Trek would have been BETTER if it had not gone for "hip" with so-called "modern" pacing, camera work, etc.

There is nothing wrong with liking this movie.

Never said there was, but I'm not going to play guild the lily with a dandylion either.

They took a unique (albeit safe) way of having their cake and eating it too: Creating their own universe for their Kirk and Spock to live in while honoring the original show and what came after.

They took the gutless way of doing it given the (unofficial) mandate to reboot.

Now that the torch couldn't be more officially passed, I want to see where Abrams and team take it.

I'll take it (if it holds it's quality) if that's all I can get. I'd rather have more Rodenberry-verse Trek. But the studio seems to believe it was the material, rather than the producers that failed.

Now I don't like this "better" than TWOK, TMP or even FC, but I would put it up in their ranks for the Star Trek films I am most likely to throw into the DVD player or watch with friends.

I would put it solidly in the "2nd tier" of films...fun on occasion to watch, but not compelling enough to be a favorite.

And you know what?? For those who are new to the concept of Kirk and Spock, If someone decided to check out the original show because they liked this film better, why should I care that they liked this film better than TWOK? That's just petty.

You must be referring to someone else, because I never said THAT either...

 

[number6]

My statement isn't directed at you at all, only to those who seem to dismiss this as a mindless popcorn flick enjoyed by people who don't know any better.

If people want to get hung up on the style they chose to tell their version of the story, that just something you either accept or you don't. Every film and series did their take on the design and look of it and some people loved it and some people hated it.

Sure I feel cheated about never getting to see the original 1701 on the big screen.
You don't think that bugs me?? I thought ENT's IAMD proved how timeless that ship is.

I'm not going to get my panties in a wad because of the ship's nacelles, or the lolor of Chris Pine's eyes. They took Star Trek into their own direction and made an entertaining, rewatchable Star Trek film.

It is what it is.

This new film happens to work for me on other levels than superficial stylistic choices like camera shaking or lens flares. It helped the scope and pacing of the film and it never felt wrong to me. It's just the way people shoot films nowadays.

 

[PorthosShadow]

After twenty pages of mud flinging I'm not sure if there is anything new that I can add but I will try. I really loved the movie when I first saw it in the theatres and I still love it. Yes, it wasn't a Moby Dick like tale of revenge or a pollitical allegory for our times but instead it was a big adventure.

J.J. said in the commentary that the reason for such a bombastic opening title sequence was to make a bold statement "Star Trek is back" and that's how I felt upon seeing the movie. This movie's main goal was to create a new universe and not really continue with something we have seen before.

Now that the world and the characters have been put in place I wouldn't discount the possibility of having a more nuanced sequel now that all the pieces are there. Btw, for those comparing this movie to 90210, I would like to point out that compared to a lot of other teen or young adult programing of it's time 90210 was fairly mature.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

My statement isn't directed at you at all, only to those who seem to dismiss this as a mindless popcorn flick enjoyed by people who don't know any better.

Fair enough...coming right on the heels of mine it appeared to be directed at me so I responded. My apologies.

If people want to get hung up on the style they chose to tell their version of the story, that just something you either accept or you don't. Every film and series did their take on the design and look of it and some people loved it and some people hated it.

There is, in my opinion, a difference between stylistic differences and bad film making. The design of the new Enterprise (which I liked) is a stylistic difference. Washing out the frame with lens flares and spinning axis fx shots are bad film making.

Sure I feel cheated about never getting to see the original 1701 on the big screen.
You don't think that bugs me?? I thought ENT's IAMD proved how timeless that ship is.

Agreed.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Btw, for those comparing this movie to 90210, I would like to point out that compared to a lot of other teen or young adult programing of it's time 90210 was fairly mature.

OUCH! Damning with faint praise, aren't we?

 

[number6]

After twenty pages of mud flinging I'm not sure if there is anything new that I can add but I will try. I really loved the movie when I first saw it in the theatres and I still love it. Yes, it wasn't a Moby Dick like tale of revenge or a pollitical allegory for our times but instead it was a big adventure.

J.J. said in the commentary that the reason for such a bombastic opening title sequence was to make a bold statement "Star Trek is back" and that's how I felt upon seeing the movie. This movie's main goal was to create a new universe and not really continue with something we have seen before.

Yep. That's pretty much the film I watched.

Now that the world and the characters have been put in place I wouldn't discount the possibility of having a more nuanced sequel now that all the pieces are there.

The fact that they are looking to The Dark Night as a template for how to make a sequel to a reboot gives me faith of the potential of the next film.

Btw, for those comparing this movie to 90210, I would like to point out that compared to a lot of other teen or young adult programing of it's time 90210 was fairly mature.

The 90210 comparison is baseless. If someone is going to do that kind of comparison it does imply that he or she actually watched that show and I don't know how many cynical Trek fans are going to willingly admit that on this board.