I had the exact same assumption when I first created the list, but I think someone (like Richard Bignell) said it was sent to Hong Kong from elsewhere.
Wish I could remember where...
Wiped! Doctor who's missing episodes story
- Thread starter starsuperion
- Start date
I had the exact same assumption when I first created the list, but I think someone (like Richard Bignell) said it was sent to Hong Kong from elsewhere.
Wish I could remember where...
Refresh your memory; does this look familiar?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/photonovels/evilofthedaleks/six/contactsheet.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/photonovels/evilofthedaleks/seven/contactsheet.shtml
These are the only two episodes that feature the battle on Skaro at the end of the story.
Otherwise (sans your memory of the Emperor) you would have to have seen Power of the Daleks instead.
If that comes from Richard, it's probably gospel. He's very careful in his research.
Alright. I admit it. I have it. But you'll never see it until the Beeb coughs up some serious cash!
Fork it over... LOL
Nope, I remember Maxtible and the Dalek city, the dalek emperor, and a lot of running.. the black helmeted dalek, and the doctor and an arch with him being brain washed..
Is there by chance a list which shows which CDC (Canadian) stations were distributed copies of the Doctor who episodes given by the BBC?? I know that back then they made 12 copies to send to their affiliates because of the expansive distances of the canadian country..they may have made copies of the copies for further distribution..
but it would be nice to know what Canada got, and what the US got in episodes..
AFAIK, countries like Canada and Australia didn't get mutiple copies: if they couldn't feed all their affliates a signal from HQ, then the prints they had would be cycled round the local stations, so they'd be shown on different dates on different areas.
As for which stories were sold to Canada, according to the link below, only one missing story is known to have been sold to Canada (Marco Polo, as all the evidence shows that CBC's 1960s screenings of Who stopped after The Keyes of Marinus).
Evil of the Daleks was only sold to four countries in total.
http://archive.whoniversity.co.uk/gateway/doctorwhoexpectingtheunexpected.html
I'll try and track down the more detailed list, but the basic point is,
According to BBC Enterprises records, Evil of the Daleks was never sold to any station in the Americas. If it made its way to Canada and then the US, then it did so unofficially by passing on a copy from one of the countries that did buy it (which fits with your memory of the introductory announcement - they shouldn't have been showing it, in copyright terms!).
First step in working out where the prints might now be is working out where they came from...
Wiped! is now availible for pre-order on bookdepository.com. The price is currently $11.99 with free shipping worldwide.
http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9781845830373/Wiped!-Doctor-Whos-Missing-Episodes
http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9781845830373/Wiped!-Doctor-Whos-Missing-Episodes
This is an interesting discussion! I have a theory that I want to toss out regarding the "mysterious" broadcast allegedly of Evil of the Daleks in the 1980s. Does anyone know when fan-made reconstructions began to circulate? Loose Cannon has made one for every lost story. Is it possible the PBS channel aired one of these? Or, perhaps, a telesnap recreation? Remember the soundtracks exist for every missing episode. It's possible there was a special broadcast of one of these. The surviving episode might have also been broadcast though I can't recall if any of the scenes discussed were included.
Thing is, there have been intensive searches for missing episodes since the late 1970s. The Lost in Time documentary The Missing Years goes into detail about this. Episodes have been found in boot sales, church basements, Nigeria. It is doubtful that any legitimate stone has remained unturned in the US or Canada. That said, it's interesting someone mentioned Northern Canada as a potential source for missing episodes because I do wonder if the archives of, say, CBC Inuvik have been examined.
The sad part is the CBC is really quite disorganized when it comes to this sort of thing. I mean they're fine if you're researching CANADIAN productions - they even have a museum dedicated to CBC history in their main studio in Toronto - but they have displayed such complete indifference to Doctor Who, especially in their recent broadcasts before Space took it over, that I wouldn't be surprised if they did have Marco Polo in a storage room somewhere and it just got chucked because a) it wasn't a CBC show and b) it wasn't Canadian content.
I'm glad we at least have the soundtracks so we can listen to the episodes, and the telesnaps to give an idea of how they looked (something fans of The Avengers would dearly like to have for the almost-completely-lost first season of that show). Earlier today Big Finish released, for free, a 10-minute CGI mini-episode of the Bernice Summerfield spin-off series. I still think that's the way to go for recreating the lost episodes. There's a fantastic fan-made recreation of the Web of Fear trailer on YouTube. I think someone just needs to go ahead and do it - and the software is making it easier all the time - and just offer the finish product to 2 Entertain once it's done. Someone posted a rather cynical comment in an earlier thread on this topic that fans doing this for free are unreliable. Tell that to the Loose Cannon people who for more than a decade, on their own dime, not only put together their own recreations (of professional enough quality that they could be released by 2 Entertain) but they even arranged for cast interviews and behind-the-scenes extras. For example, their 2-VHS recreation of The Daleks Master Plan has an interview with Kevin Stoney, who played the villain and is now deceased and therefore unavailable for any sort of "official" interview should 2 Entertain ever release a version of that story. No one made any money out of the Loose Cannon venture, and still the job got done. I maintain there are plenty of skilled animators out there who would jump at the chance to animate, for example, Tenth Planet 4 and get that story completed, and deliver a product on par with and probably superior to Cosgrove Hall. And the cost to 2 Entertain would probably be less than what it cost them to make a featurette on a "no one gives a s*it about it" story like Time and the Rani!
I certainly don't buy the argument that "The Invasion" didn't sell enough copies. Frankly, if 2 Entertain wasn't selling enough copies of these things, we wouldn't be seeing them continue to release them, with a promise to continue until at least 2013*, now would we.
Alex
*Per a statement made at a Canadian Doctor Who convention last year by Steve Roberts of the Restoration Team. Roberts said, at the time (subject to change, of course), that 2 Entertain intended to continue releasing classic-series Doctor Who until at least the 50th anniversary, by which time all available stories are expected to have been issued. After that, of course, it's anyone's guess as to whether release on Blu-Ray will be possible. Likely not, except for the shot-on-film Spearhead from Space and the TV movie.
Thing is, there have been intensive searches for missing episodes since the late 1970s. The Lost in Time documentary The Missing Years goes into detail about this. Episodes have been found in boot sales, church basements, Nigeria. It is doubtful that any legitimate stone has remained unturned in the US or Canada. That said, it's interesting someone mentioned Northern Canada as a potential source for missing episodes because I do wonder if the archives of, say, CBC Inuvik have been examined.
The sad part is the CBC is really quite disorganized when it comes to this sort of thing. I mean they're fine if you're researching CANADIAN productions - they even have a museum dedicated to CBC history in their main studio in Toronto - but they have displayed such complete indifference to Doctor Who, especially in their recent broadcasts before Space took it over, that I wouldn't be surprised if they did have Marco Polo in a storage room somewhere and it just got chucked because a) it wasn't a CBC show and b) it wasn't Canadian content.
I'm glad we at least have the soundtracks so we can listen to the episodes, and the telesnaps to give an idea of how they looked (something fans of The Avengers would dearly like to have for the almost-completely-lost first season of that show). Earlier today Big Finish released, for free, a 10-minute CGI mini-episode of the Bernice Summerfield spin-off series. I still think that's the way to go for recreating the lost episodes. There's a fantastic fan-made recreation of the Web of Fear trailer on YouTube. I think someone just needs to go ahead and do it - and the software is making it easier all the time - and just offer the finish product to 2 Entertain once it's done. Someone posted a rather cynical comment in an earlier thread on this topic that fans doing this for free are unreliable. Tell that to the Loose Cannon people who for more than a decade, on their own dime, not only put together their own recreations (of professional enough quality that they could be released by 2 Entertain) but they even arranged for cast interviews and behind-the-scenes extras. For example, their 2-VHS recreation of The Daleks Master Plan has an interview with Kevin Stoney, who played the villain and is now deceased and therefore unavailable for any sort of "official" interview should 2 Entertain ever release a version of that story. No one made any money out of the Loose Cannon venture, and still the job got done. I maintain there are plenty of skilled animators out there who would jump at the chance to animate, for example, Tenth Planet 4 and get that story completed, and deliver a product on par with and probably superior to Cosgrove Hall. And the cost to 2 Entertain would probably be less than what it cost them to make a featurette on a "no one gives a s*it about it" story like Time and the Rani!
I certainly don't buy the argument that "The Invasion" didn't sell enough copies. Frankly, if 2 Entertain wasn't selling enough copies of these things, we wouldn't be seeing them continue to release them, with a promise to continue until at least 2013*, now would we.Alex
*Per a statement made at a Canadian Doctor Who convention last year by Steve Roberts of the Restoration Team. Roberts said, at the time (subject to change, of course), that 2 Entertain intended to continue releasing classic-series Doctor Who until at least the 50th anniversary, by which time all available stories are expected to have been issued. After that, of course, it's anyone's guess as to whether release on Blu-Ray will be possible. Likely not, except for the shot-on-film Spearhead from Space and the TV movie.
23skidoo,
It's unlikely that there's any decent reconstructions before 1993, which is when the bulk of the John Cura telesnaps on which they rely were discovered.Prior to that, only telesnaps from a handful of stories - Macra Terror and Savages - were known to exist.
It's unlikely that there's any decent reconstructions before 1993, which is when the bulk of the John Cura telesnaps on which they rely were discovered.Prior to that, only telesnaps from a handful of stories - Macra Terror and Savages - were known to exist.
How do you know about a war that happened 17,764 years in the future? You're not a former companion, are you?
But seriously, what happened in the Cyprus War?
I'd just like to mention that I've seen a lot of kinky stuff over the years, but Dalek-on-Dalek is probably the most unerotic of all.
Ya know, I wonder if CGI will ever get cheap enough to do, so that a company could go in and contract out the missing episodes, and do them in "AVATAR" quality CGI, in black and white, and add the surviving soundtracks in.. and release it on DVD.. that would just be awesome!! Absolutely Brilliant
How do you know about a war that happened 17,764 years in the future? You're not a former companion, are you?
But seriously, what happened in the Cyprus War?
In 1974, Turkey invaded northern Cyprus in support of the Turkish Cypriots (who had disagreements with the Greek Cypriots), over a dispute that should probably be discussed in The Neutral Zone rather than here.
In 1984, Cyprus TV returned episodes 1,2,3 & 6 of The Reign of Terror to the BBC. According to their records, they also had episodes 4 & 5, but these were stored in their northern studios, which were destroyed by an artillery barrage during the 1974 invasion.
That doesn't rule out the possibility of eps 4/5 surviving, as ep6 had already been returned by a collector. But it's fairly clear that one set of copies got destroyed in the fighting.
How do you know about a war that happened 17,764 years in the future? You're not a former companion, are you?
But seriously, what happened in the Cyprus War?
In 1974, Turkey invaded northern Cyprus in support of the Turkish Cypriots (who had disagreements with the Greek Cypriots), over a dispute that should probably be discussed in The Neutral Zone rather than here.
In 1984, Cyprus TV returned episodes 1,2,3 & 6 of The Reign of Terror to the BBC. According to their records, they also had episodes 4 & 5, but these were stored in their northern studios, which were destroyed by an artillery barrage during the 1974 invasion.
That doesn't rule out the possibility of eps 4/5 surviving, as ep6 had already been returned by a collector. But it's fairly clear that one set of copies got destroyed in the fighting.
and yet we have no idea, how many collectors might hold a missing episode, and if they will ever return it to the bbc...
From what I have reading about on the net, it seems likely these collectors, aren't all Doctor who fans, some are just rich and extravagant people who delight in owning something, the rest of us will never be able to see..and some are just a handful of well to do film buffs, who sell these privately or at trade for other rare films..
there is a whole seedy underworld where this stuff ends up.. and picked at like some comic book judge..scrutinizing every bit..
I haven't had any problem with the price jumping around, but for some reason the price on bookdepository.com is $11.99 while the price on bookdepository.co.uk is 11.99 pounds.
What isn't there to buy? The Invasion sold very well compared to other releases at the time, however 2|Entertain bought the animations from BBCi )or whoever it was) for a significantly lower amount than it would cost were they to make it from scratch.
In order to justify the expense of further animations it would have probably needed to sell as much as the vanilla New Series discs would have cost - some 5-10 as many units as it actually sold.
They never made a loss on The Invasion; they just never sold as many as they would have needed to carry on (and no-one realistically expected them to).
