Kirk - should there be a "mentor" on the Enterprise?

[Cadet49]

I think it would be great to see a new character introduced in Star Trek 12 who would be like a Federation overseer, someone who could be a protocol officer and diplomatic aid to the young, inexperienced captain, like R.J. Blaise was in Peter David's run of the Star Trek Comic series.

Let's face it ... Kirk saved the Earth and countless Federation worlds by stopping a ship from the future that no one seemed to be able to stop (I'm assuming that Nero destroyed a bunch of Vulcan and Federation defense ships offscreen, before facing off against the Enterprise...) - that's impressive. It was his plan to have Spock pilot the "Jellyfish" away from Earth, drawing Nero into space where the Enterprise could beam them out just as Spock ignited the red matter, trapping Nero's "invincible vessel" in a Black Hole, the only force that seemed to be able to stop it. Tactically, he showed a lot of command prowess, problem-solving skills, and drew on the talents of his senior officers to get the Enterprise in range of the Narada.

However, he doesn't seem to have any diplomatic or cultural contact experience for dealing with alien civilizations, unlike more senior captains. It would be an interesting plot idea in the next movie to indicate that Starfleet promoted Kirk because the public was heralding him as a hero who saved the Federation, but they still had serious doubts about his ability to command long-term, and so assigned a "mentor" to guide him - really just a protocol officer and overseer... someone who could have a real air of self-righteousness and arrogance, and would have a bunch of tension with Kirk ... someone who could override his decisions...really get under his skin... we should see some situation with the Prime Directive next movie, if only as a minor element ...

This could really lead to some good drama, as we see Kirk trying to prove that he really deserves to be the captain, not just because of his new-found celebrity.

 

[kkozoriz1]

If Kirk needs a mentor, he shouldn't be captain. That's why you climb the ranks, to aquire the skills and wisdom to command.

 

[MvRojo]

If Kirk needs a mentor, he shouldn't be captain. That's why you climb the ranks, to aquire the skills and wisdom to command.

I totally agree. It completely undermines the captain if he has to consult someone when someone major happens. I'd prefer he gets a random pep talk or something from McCoy.

Also, if Kirk needs to prove he is worthy of being a captain, it would require that the crew or someone doubt his abilities. I would think that would be redundant based on how he was perceived when he took over as Captain in Trek XI.

 

[Sabataage]

It would have to be Bruce Greenwood as Admiral Pike, but not on the Enterprise though. Maybe planetside, like overseeing the recently built Starbase 11. He'd basically be "da chief," giving Kirk and crew mission briefings, advising Kirk on being a good leader and defending his unconventional methods to superiors. And then he's killed two days to retirement-- wait, not that part.

 

[STR]

Nice thing about movies, is that you can set a sequel years after the original, and thereby magically imbuing Kirk with all the experience you need.

 

[Gojira]

I agree that Pike could still be involved in a mentoring role with Kirk but not on the Enterprise. I am also in favor of setting the next movie a few years after the events of the first movie giving Kirk more experience.

Also, remember this version of Kirk is a genius so maybe the amount of mentoring he needs may be minimal.

 

[Captrek]

If there is a mentor on board whose job it is to make sure the young Captain knows how things are supposed to be done, that mentor will be Spock, and Kirk will for the most part ignore his advice, especially when it’s unsolicited.

 

[Tarek71]

Lets just all pretend that a third year cadet wasnt made a Captain. They could have set it later in Kirks career, but they didnt. I agree that the next movie should be set a few or even several years after the first one, and Kirks in his 30s and been a captain for quite a long while.

Mentoring is a-ok. No one is an island and no ones experience is ever enough to perfectly cover all situations forever. You need input from mentors, peers and others. But nevertheless, lets put Cadet Captain well behind us.

 

[Captain Rob]

Here we go. We could open the next movie with Kirk graduating from Starfleet's College of Off-World Relations (no pun intended). He could then return to the Enterprise with his new friend, fellow grad Gary Mitchell.
I bet Shatner's Kirk would be an instructor, or Dean. Maybe it should be Diplomatic Relations.

 

[kkozoriz1]

The next movie should end with him being promoted to Admiral.

 

[Tarek71]

The next movie should end with him being promoted to Admiral.

I was surprised they didnt make him one at the end of the last movie. If any who saves a planet (sort of) is given automatic promotion to Captain, no matter their age or experience, why not Admiral of the Fleet? Or Field Marshal?

I would prefer that in the intervening years between films, Starfleet recognizes the colossal stupidity of making a Cadet a captain by having some mission go disastrously wrong under his greenhorn command, possibly with the loss of huge numbers of lives.

Crisis of confidence for Kirk. Then an older Kirk gets a chance at command and redemption. To relearn that command really is his first, best destiny. They wont do that though. I think they should, it would be alot guttsier.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The next movie should end with him being promoted to Admiral.

Why so he can disobey orders, steal his ship, screw up the fleets newest design blow up his ship, save the Earth again and as a result of the earth saving only get a demotion to Captain as punishment for the disobeying orders, stealing and destroying his ship, and breaking said new design and then getting a new ship to command? been there done that got the t-shirt.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I would prefer that in the intervening years between films, Starfleet recognizes the colossal stupidity of making a Cadet a captain by having some mission go disastrously wrong under his greenhorn command, possibly with the loss of huge numbers of lives.

Crisis of confidence for Kirk. Then an older Kirk gets a chance at command and redemption. To relearn that command really is his first, best destiny. They wont do that though. I think they should, it would be alot guttsier.

Well maybe not that harsh, but Kirk's unwarranted promotion is generating a lot of fan backlash that they need to address, and could do so easily, by knocking him down a peg so that we can see him get back up on his own merits. Shouldn't even require too much screen time to convey. They should handle it early in the next movie, and then get on with the real story.

 

[Aragorn]

How about he bounces ideas off a wise old bartender in the lounge?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The mentor should be Pike, AND on the Enterprise. I don't care what he's done, Kirk is way too young to have the rank or position of Captain. He should be serving as Pike's XO, with the rank of Lieutenant Commander.

(hell, even if he has to be the captain of the ship, he should *still* have the rank of Lt. Commander.)

 

[Sharr Khan]

unwarranted promotion

Must of watched a different movie than I did. Had Kirk not behaved otherwise more planets would have gone the way of Vulcan. I'd say having that insight is sufficient merit for promotion.

Storytelling wise there never was going to be an ending which did not have a Captain James T. Kirk in charge of the Enterprise. The joe schmoes Temis that you are usually more cognizant of would have gone "Huh? Kirk's the Captain!" and been left with an unresolved void without that promotion scene.

Really, the fan "backlash" is so overwhelming they need to take precious storytelling time away to back track and address this? Call me skeptical, but I doubt its overwhelming or detrimental.

Kirk does not need a minder! If anything that's a lesson old fans should have learned about Kirk long ago. Though I'm ok with Admiral Pike off somewhere else and NOT meddling to buck the trend of most StarFleet brass while providing advice.

Kirk's whole point is, he's a natural, this is his first, best destiny. This is also why the next film probably won't begin two seconds after the first one.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

A promotion was earned, yes. Not all the way to Captain. Kirk was a Lieutenant for most of the film (according to the transporter readout screen as Chekov is trying to beam him and Sulu up), so the natural choice is to simply promote him to LCDR. He can still be *the* captain, just not *a Captain*.

And, as we all know, all starship commanding officers are called 'captain' regardless of rank, you can still call him Captain Kirk. Dig?

 

[kkozoriz1]

That's the problem with the way they structured it. They went from having everyone except Spock and Scott as a cadet and then a few days later (notice Kirk's facial cuts in the final Academy scene) He's promoted three grades and given command of the newest ship in the fleet. And he was only a third year cadet at that. How many people are given a command of any size straight out of the Naval Academy?

It should have been a trilogy leading up to that but they had to jam it all into one film since they didn't know how the first one would go over.

BTW, Spock helped save Earth as much as Kirk did. Where's his reward?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ At the very absolute least, the final scene should have been a flash-forward.

 

[Sharr Khan]

All those technicalities, they're pretty much dead on arrival in a film of this nature, they are in fact useless weight and beside the point.

As interesting as it might seem to debate them in this forum they are just not worth wasting storytelling time on in a two hour summer blockbuster. Unless it will advance the story or plot along of course. If he's going to be "captain" regardless you're better off giving the general audience the emotional catharses of Kirk getting his reward and being made commander proper of the Enterprise.

No,Spock did not "save Earth as much as Kirk" he had to be manipulated into taking the right actions by Kirk who had the proper instincts do what had to be done. I think both Spocks would admit that if they would ever be pressed on the issue.

Its actually hard to argue military protocol when it comes to Trek since as a tradition, it really has never minded going its own way. I mean if we're going to argue those particulars the Enterprise IS NOT A FLAG VESSEL.

Brevet_(military) In the past it was not unheard of to grant such field commands. If we're going with the Wagon Train to the stars notion, oh and that a whole bunch of StarFleet ships were destroyed with their senior officers thanks to Nero. Works for me as a rationalization.