Rules of Acquisition - why was Kira a bitch to Zek?

[StarryEyed]

It wasn't just Kira or the Bajorans or even just DS9. We saw a number of Starfleet officers and Federation citizens treat Ferengi like crap. Even Ambassador Troi calls them 'disgusting little trolls'. This is not the way Star Trek is supposed to be.

It should also be mentioned that although we don't know the military power of the Ferengi Alliance compared to other AQ powers, it's obvious that they are orders of magnitude beyond the Bajorans. It makes no sense at all that Zek wasn't afforded all the pomp and circumstances of a major head of state when he visited DS9.

As for him grabbing Kira's ass, that's a different story. If a major head of state from any present-day country did that, he would receive a kisser-full of knuckles and would would be derided by his own constituents.

Kira defending herself is not an issue; Zek probably grabbed her ass as an intentional provocation to see how she would react. The issue is that Zek was not treated seriously in the first place. No Ferengi are and that's wrong.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

It wasn't just Kira or the Bajorans or even just DS9. We saw a number of Starfleet officers and Federation citizens treat Ferengi like crap. Even Ambassador Troi calls them 'disgusting little trolls'. This is not the way Star Trek is supposed to be.

But it IS what we would expect out of a society that sees itself as superior and "more evolved" than the Ferengi. (Which is why I loved it when Quark dished it right back out by pointing out the nasty, violent things that the Ferengi had never done.)

It should also be mentioned that although we don't know the military power of the Ferengi Alliance compared to other AQ powers, it's obvious that they are orders of magnitude beyond the Bajorans. It makes no sense at all that Zek wasn't afforded all the pomp and circumstances of a major head of state when he visited DS9.

The ONLY way it could make any "sense"--other than racism, which I do think is entirely possible--would be if the Ferengi are a bit more libertarian and do not actually HAVE a central government in the sense other powers would understand it.

As for him grabbing Kira's ass, that's a different story. If a major head of state from any present-day country did that, he would receive a kisser-full of knuckles and would would be derided by his own constituents.

We hope, anyway. Sexual "problems" seem to be very common with politicians yet they still keep getting elected, unless what they do is disgusting enough.

Kira defending herself is not an issue; Zek probably grabbed her ass as an intentional provocation to see how she would react. The issue is that Zek was not treated seriously in the first place. No Ferengi are and that's wrong.

Agreed. At least Nog made Sisko face up to that for a time.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

It wasn't just Kira or the Bajorans or even just DS9. We saw a number of Starfleet officers and Federation citizens treat Ferengi like crap. Even Ambassador Troi calls them 'disgusting little trolls'. This is not the way Star Trek is supposed to be.

Oh, on that count I completely agree.

 

[Timo]

The Ferengi didnt collaborate with the Cardassians. The Cardassians werent occupying them and subjugating them, the Cardassians and Ferengi were mere neighbours in the quadrant, and if they wanted to do business with each other they were perfectly entitled to do so, even if the Bajorans didnt approve.

But that's the definition of collaborating: the Ferengi provided support services for the occupation, for reasons that did not matter, just like reason never enters the picture when collaboration charges are levied. You don't need to be held at gunpoint in order to count as a collaborator, although it often helps.

It would have been bad enough if the Ferengi failed to impose sanctions on Cardassia for occupying Bajor. That alone would make them a hostile power in practical terms. But the Ferengi went much farther than that, establishing a support service for the occupying forces. That's a directly hostile act, and good grounds for Bajor becoming directly hostile to the Ferengi Union in return.

Of course, one may debate whether Quark acted in any sort of official capacity. But the Ferengi Alliance doesn't seem to be built on "official capacity": diplomacy, trade and defense alike seem to be handled by private entrepreneurs whose letter of marque may not be public information, or even exist.

It should also be mentioned that although we don't know the military power of the Ferengi Alliance compared to other AQ powers, it's obvious that they are orders of magnitude beyond the Bajorans. It makes no sense at all that Zek wasn't afforded all the pomp and circumstances of a major head of state when he visited DS9.

The Ferengi are a well-known enemy of the UFP, which in turn militarily trumps the disgusting little trolls. Bajorans don't want to "afford pomp" to Cardassia because they want nothing to do with that culture except see it annihilated; they may have to yield anyway because Cardassia might retaliate despite the UFP (thanks to proximity and resulting local superiority). The Ferengi cannot retaliate in the military sense, though, so spitting on them is fairly safe.

Of course, the Ferengi could attempt economic retaliation (and The 34th Rule discusses this to some extent, too). And Bajorans don't categorically condemn Cardassia, either; there could be economic and cultural benefits to amicable relations with the Union. But Bajor might have decided that there would be no benefits to amicable relations with the Ferengi Alliance, meaning they can ignore Ferenginar politically and seek alliances elsewhere.

We hope, anyway. Sexual "problems" seem to be very common with politicians yet they still keep getting elected, unless what they do is disgusting enough.

Don't we elect them to represent ourselves? The representation would be quite biased if politicians didn't have these very common sexual "problems"...

Electing politicians who represent what we perceive as the best in ourselves is likely to backfire: politicians that far removed from reality are unlikely to achieve much that would improve said reality.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I never thought Ferengi males "hate" women. I just think they had strict cultural norms regarding acceptable female behaviour. Ferengi reactions to clothed females vary from shock to titillation.

These cultural norms may be suffocatingly strict by our standards but thats not the same as misogyny. In fact most of the Ferengi on the show were shown to be capable of real love and affection for women, both Ferengi and non Ferengi.

If by "most" you mean "Rom", then I might agree. Rom is the only Ferengi male who actually seemed to care for women. The rest of them are all sexist pricks, which in the end is the same as hatred.

 

[MNM]

But that's the definition of collaborating:

In the context, it is clear it was meant collaboration in the sense of helping the enemy. It's what some people do when your country gets occupied, and it gets you executed as a traitor once the invading enemy has gone.

The Cardassians were not the enemies of the Ferengi. So when Quark did business with them, he wasnt collaborating.

 

[Timo]

So by that definition, the Ferengi were worse: they were the enemy!

A Ferengi national participated in running the orbital powerbase of Cardassian intimidation, also famed for exploiting Bajoran workers (collaborators by the above definition). He provided entertainment to the troops, entertainment famed for the use of comfort women (regardless of whether Quark directly dealt in them or not). Odds are, he also brought his own holoprojectors and replicators, giving Cardassians direct access to advanced technologies. In short, he and his fellow Ferengi workers did their very public bit in occupying Bajor.

Even setting foot on Bajor would probably have been suicide for Quark in the early years; when he was seen doing so, it was in the private presence of a prominent collaborator. Any Ferengi approaching Bajorans would probably be associated with Quark and his workers - and Kira would have firsthand knowledge of how Quark ran his occupation business, plus experience on his lack of remorse later on. Hardly the best possible spokesperson for amicable relations with the Alliance...

Timo Saloniemi