Did Spock purposely send himself back in time?

[Devon]

I just got to thinking about something. There is a line that young Spock uses in the film on the bridge in which he mentions that the technology used to create the artificial black holes could be engineered to be a tunnel through space. Spock seems quite content being where he is, though obviously not happy with the results of what happened. Is it possible that Spock did something with the red matter that purposely caused himself to go back in time as well as sweeping the supernova? Maybe it's a very early onset of Bendii Syndrome?

Discuss.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The time travel was a fluke. Spock merely pointed out that it's possible that such a technology might be harnessed in such a way. Remember they'd decided Nero was from the future, but didn't know how he got back until the Old Spock/Kirk mind-meld on Delta Vega. At the time they didn't know when he was from or what the limit of his abilities was. It was speculation.

Old Spock fell into the black hole trying to escape from an understandably-annoyed Nero after Romulus was destroyed.

 

[JarodRussell]

The way Young Spock concluded that Nero must have been from the future wasn't very... logically.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I agree. The time travel was an accident... I don't think Spock or Nero knew exactly where they were going to end up.

 

[bullethead]

In an earlier draft of the script, Spock intentionally created a black hole to travel back in time, which is why there's that line about going back in time is cheating. But in the final cut of the film, the time travel was totally accidental.

 

[JarodRussell]

In an earlier draft of the script, Spock intentionally created a black hole to travel back in time, which is why there's that line about going back in time is cheating. But in the final cut of the film, the time travel was totally accidental.

Do you have a source for that? Why would he do that in the Orciverse where changing your own past is impossible?

 

[F. King Daniel]

The early script is somewhere on IMSDB.com. They've also got an early First Contact one (where Earth is attacked by, like, 47 Borg ships and Troi's the communications officer )

 

[Set Harth]

Why would he do that in the Orciverse where changing your own past is impossible?

How is going through a RMBH intentionally any more "changing your own past" than going through a RMBH unintentionally?

 

[JarodRussell]

Why would he do that in the Orciverse where changing your own past is impossible?

How is going through a RMBH intentionally any more "changing your own past" than going through a RMBH unintentionally?

Well, it's the intention part.

 

[bullethead]

In an earlier draft of the script, Spock intentionally created a black hole to travel back in time, which is why there's that line about going back in time is cheating. But in the final cut of the film, the time travel was totally accidental.

Do you have a source for that? Why would he do that in the Orciverse where changing your own past is impossible?

Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?d1t7bd6ra9cppao

 

[T'Girl]

trying to escape from an understandably-annoyed Nero after Romulus was destroyed.

If I had just spent weeks rebuilding my mining ship into a supership, but somehow managed to forgot to remove my family from an endangered planet, I would be "annoyed" too.

 

[UFO]

In an earlier draft of the script, Spock intentionally created a black hole to travel back in time, which is why there's that line about going back in time is cheating. But in the final cut of the film, the time travel was totally accidental.

Do you have a source for that? Why would he do that in the Orciverse where changing your own past is impossible?

It looks to me as though they intended a more conventional time travel story when that script was written. But I guess someone pointed out that they should probably try to get into some sort of witness protection programme ...

 

[bullethead]

trying to escape from an understandably-annoyed Nero after Romulus was destroyed.

If I had just spent weeks rebuilding my mining ship into a supership, but somehow managed to forgot to remove my family from an endangered planet, I would be "annoyed" too.

The supership thing happened after Romulus was obliterated and the writers of the Nero comic made his wife do one of those "I don't want my kid born on a mining ship/ you'll fix the fix the problem" deals.

 

[Set Harth]

Well, it's the intention part.

So Spock changes the very nature of RMBH time travel by intending to go through a RMBH rather than going through one unintentionally?

So Spock's intention actually controls the nature of reality?

Is Spock, in fact, God?

 

[Sharr Khan]

The supership thing happened after Romulus was obliterated and the writers of the Nero comic made his wife do one of those "I don't want my kid born on a mining ship/ you'll fix the fix the problem" deals.

The way its presented in the movie, I got the impression the Romulans were assured everything would be A-OK and Nero went off to do his job and returned home to find Romulas destroyed. Hence his hatred of Spock.

And the movie does not at all indicate he did (or even needed) to upgrade his ship. Actually the movie makes it clear the Narada's strength is a matter her being from the far future and a mining ship meant to crack into planets. Which I like far better than any Borg tech.

Is Spock, in fact, God?

Before the movie came out I thought we might in fact learn he was "Future Guy" and indeed would be shown to be a giant string puller throughout all the Trek 'verse.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Spock's mind meld with Kirk is supposed to be an impressionistic recap of events, leaving lots of room for interpretation. I saw it like the recap at the start of the second part of a cliffhanger episode - the important beats are there, but they didn't all happen in the space of twenty seconds or perhaps exactly as shown.

The Countdown comic takes liberties with the film (in the comic, Spock doesn't launch the Jellyfish until after Romulus is destroyed, the upgraded Nerada has a cloaking device), but it's nothing that can't be explained away or happily ignored should anyone want to.

And, of course, the writers of the movie were involved with the comic. While it doesn't make it canon, it's ideas were filtered through the same sieve as STXI's. IIRC, the Bluray extras reference Nerada's upgrade from Countdown, too.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Spock's mind meld with Kirk is supposed to be an impressionistic recap of events,

I like that notion, this is actually I think the first time ever we've "seen" a mind meld. Usually we just get tandem speaking and the repetition of phrases from the two actors involved.

 

[JarodRussell]

Spock's mind meld with Kirk is supposed to be an impressionistic recap of events, leaving lots of room for interpretation. I saw it like the recap at the start of the second part of a cliffhanger episode - the important beats are there, but they didn't all happen in the space of twenty seconds or perhaps exactly as shown.

The Countdown comic takes liberties with the film (in the comic, Spock doesn't launch the Jellyfish until after Romulus is destroyed, the upgraded Nerada has a cloaking device), but it's nothing that can't be explained away or happily ignored should anyone want to.

And, of course, the writers of the movie were involved with the comic. While it doesn't make it canon, it's ideas were filtered through the same sieve as STXI's. IIRC, the Bluray extras reference Nerada's upgrade from Countdown, too.

The writers themselves already disagreed with the comic. I don't think they were really involved with it. They had created the basic story of Spock trying to save Romulus with the Jellyfish and the Red Matter, and then Paramount probably told the comic book author "There. Go." Gave him a couple of stills from the trailers that he could redraw and done was the comic.

 

[F. King Daniel]

How did the writers disagree with the comic? AFAIK Bob Orci said "the comic isn't canon" on trekmovie.com, but that's a statement of fact rather than a disagreement. IIRC in the Countdown TPB's afterward they say they were TNG fans first, and how much they enjoyed writing the crew they grew up with.

 

[Timo]

And the movie does not at all indicate he did (or even needed) to upgrade his ship. Actually the movie makes it clear the Narada's strength is a matter her being from the far future and a mining ship meant to crack into planets. Which I like far better than any Borg tech.

Heartily seconded - although I don't quite see how the movie "makes it clear".

One thing left unclear is how much of Nero's power stems from his possession of red matter. His ship seems slow and weak in many ways, incapable of opposing two vessels (Spock's and Kirk's) in the end, even though the same ship dealt with 47 enemies on one occasion and at least seven or eight in another. Would the difference lie in Nero having time to use a bit of red matter in his fights against the Klingons and the Starfleet task force?

Timo Saloniemi