Barnes and Noble is up for sale

[darkwing_duck1]

...and the usual speculation/tech wanking about the "death of print" and/or the death of "brick and mortar" begins anew.

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-wor...ble-didnt-evolve-enough?mod=career-leadership

I'm still not buying it. By now, if what all the pundits (who said "cyber" and "e" were going to destroy traditional commerce), was going to happen, it would have already happened.

People still read paper books. They still read paper newspapers and magazines. They still go to stores to get their groceries.

"E" is at best an adjunct to traditional commerce, nothing more.

 

[bigdaddy]

It's cheaper to run an online store, aka Amazon, then it is to run B&Ms. So that's why they are going under. Also because they have horrible "sales".

 

[Robert Maxwell]

...and the usual speculation/tech wanking about the "death of print" and/or the death of "brick and mortar" begins anew.

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-wor...ble-didnt-evolve-enough?mod=career-leadership

I'm still not buying it. By now, if what all the pundits (who said "cyber" and "e" were going to destroy traditional commerce), was going to happen, it would have already happened.

People still read paper books. They still read paper newspapers and magazines. They still go to stores to get their groceries.

"E" is at best an adjunct to traditional commerce, nothing more.

Yeah, that's why e-reader sales have skyrocketed, ebook sales are increasing as paper book sales are decreasing, and many newspapers and magazines are going to online-only formats or folding entirely, right?

While I'm sure paper books will never go away, they will become a niche market the way vinyl records have--the mainstream will be digital, period. It might take 10 years, it might take 20, but that's the direction we're headed.

 

[KB24]

I think it may take another decade for ebooks or electronic ink and ereaders to become the mainstream-simply because right now there are too many kinks in the technology and hands in the pot. Once the pirating or security is fixed and a streamlined ereader or system goes mainstream, I do think hardback books may fade out. People just won't pay $25 or more for a hardback when they can get it in a kindle or such or wait for the paperback.

I think the mass printed paperbacks may also go or certainly decrease in run-since publishers are already in over there heads with too little or too many printings and buying back the excess. I'd like to think the mid range $9 or $12 nicer trade paperback will stick around for those of us who still like real books. I also hope that once the ecraze levels out, that print books may actually have time to fix their issues and be popular again becaue they will be more of a novelty. Used bookstores and smaller pop shops will make a comeback because people will still have a lot of books that are now more valuable than the nickel and dime thrift prices we have now.

Yes, I've thought about this way too much! No one liked when these big box stores came and closed the intimate shops- but they steamrolled and overreached themselves by having too many expensive and ill stocked stores in some areas, then too far away stores that put the locals out of business. Then the big box 'book' stores stretched too thin by using premium book space for coffee chains, novelties, movies, and music. Sell books in an effing book store, maybe that will help! I think the BN and Borders reducing and focusing on books and site to store online ordering will help them remember their place- and again allow for smaller shops to return.

Anyone care about Books A Million? They are the third largest book chain but are a lot less known. There's a whopping 2 in NJ alone. I just think the big stores got the model wrong by taking over and shutting down the mall outlets. Yes I imagine there were leasing and rent issues that effected closings, but instead of driving to a Borders and happening to pick up a DVD with your book, isn't going to the video store or mall and happening to stop in for a book better? It's like having the big in your face or the elusive distant big box bookstore put books 'out of sight out of mind'. In the face of so much other media competition, you can't be so exclusive in your book audience.

BN and Borders only open in healthy or wealthy areas. I come from a smaller and now Spanish community. You'd think they'd go to an area starved for foreign education and build a Spanish only bookstore, but I suppose having to sell 10 cheaper books to equal one expensive book is too much work.

Eh, sorry for the long post! I do think these stores stretched too thin and now they are caught in the changing times. They did it to the small stores, it was bound to come back on them. Look at stupid walmart. They went from being a bright, cheap places for the masses to know the remodeled, fancy designed and upscale bits. Twits.

 

[Velocity]

I read a lot and I find that reading electronically tires my eyes more than reading a book. I probably have only 30 years left so I hope books last that long.

 

[Rii]

Speaking of eBooks, the new Kindle is tempting. The main reason I'm holding off buying one is because I have lots of dead tree books in the 'to read' pile already.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm very much a traditionalist when it comes to books. I really don't like e-readers, but I know they're going to take over the market eventually.

This kind of makes me sad. I'm a regular at my local B&N. I stop in there usually a couple times a month, often enough to the point that a lot of the employees there immediately recognize me on sight now.

 

[bigdaddy]

eBooks suck and the Kindle is a joke, just buy an iPad or another tablet that actually does something besides be a useless paperweight.

I will always be a book person, no one can randomly delete books from your bookcase. Plus they smell awesome!

 

[sidious618]

With literature being available in digital formats it's a bad day for publishers but a great day for writers as more and more avenues are opening up for them.

 

[Rii]

I'm a fan of dead tree books too. To put it delicately, I'd be using an e-reader as a 'try before you buy' device.

eBooks suck and the Kindle is a joke, just buy an iPad or another tablet that actually does something besides be a useless paperweight.

Why would I want an iPad when I have a smartphone? And of course the iPad is something like five times the price of Kindle, doesn't have one-tenth the battery life, and is significantly heavier.

 

[Skywalker]

With literature being available in digital formats it's a bad day for publishers but a great day for writers as more and more avenues are opening up for them.

That's true. Just like with music, I'm sure the rise of digital distribution will be a huge boon for prospective writers.

Still...I love paper books. Is it bad that I actually like the smell of a brand new book? It's kind of intoxicating.

 

[Teelie]

As much as I like digital, I want my hard copy too. What happens if/when your digital copy is lost because of a harddrive failure? Or the publisher (with all that nasty DRM bullshit) goes under, is sold or decides to change formats and invalidates your digital copy?

Digital still has a long, long ways to go yet and virtually everything digital at the moment has some kind of clause that says your copy is not yours to keep, it's just a license to use it and can be revoked at any time, for any reason without notice. Can't do that with a book or a CD, or DVD or anything you physically possess. And circumventing that kind of "it's not yours but we'll take your money anyways" kind of DRM is illegal.

 

[Venardhi]

This is both inaccurate and obviously biased toward Amazon.

B&N is "up for sale" in the sense that the founder is attempting to take it private so as to have more flexibility in the transition away from the big brick stores. Being hamstrung by stockholders who can't accept temporary losses is a big reason why the nook rollout was fairly underwhelming and continues to be plagued by questionable half-solutions when it comes to international use and in-store tech support. Speaking of, the guy touts the Kindle while admitting he has no interest in even trying the nook, which has been outselling the Kindle all year.

Now, if it is going to remain in his hands long term is another matter entirely. B&N has certainly had some problems adapting to a more web-based model, as well as things like software and games which have come and gone through their stores more than once. He may not be the best choice to run the company through the next decade, but there are plenty of offers out there to take it off his hands.

Borders on the other hand has looked to be on its last legs for half a decade now, how they even manage to stay in business continues to confuse the hell out of me.

The next wave of e-readers should give a good idea as to if the B&N stores have a future, and what that future will entail. The brand is certain to be around for a long time though, especially with having the B&N ebook store on just about every other e-reader coming out this year(with easily unlocked ePub files). The next time you go into a B&N store you'll probably notice some pretty big changes, especially in the big cities where nook 'lounges' are starting to pop up. By the time holiday shopping picks up, there will be plenty of e-reader options to pick from, including at least one to put the Kindle back in a solid second (or third, IMO, due to Amazon's proprietary format and draconian DRM.) place.

But yeah, that article is bollocks.

 

[T'Bonz]

I had noticed, in the past half year, that when I'd go to get a book, often B&N wouldn't have it. "You can order it!" they'd say.

Got news for you. If I come out to your store and you can't even bother to stock books but want me to order it and then come pick it up, you can fuck yourself. I'll go to Amazon.

I loved going to browse and then buying a book, even though buying in person usually cost a few dollars more. But more and more, even new books were not in stock. "But you can order it!"

Last week I went to browse, with Mom and my husband. I hadn't been in about a month because I was away on vacation and busy. I couldn't believe what had happened to my beloved store in one short month.

They had cut their inventory way down. They had tons of overpriced toys and games. Got news for you. I don't go to B&N for overpriced toys and silly junk. I go for BOOKS. No one seemed to be buying the junk, everyone in line had books and books only.

It's sad. We lost our Borders not long ago. All of the used book stores around here are gone. Are we losing our last bookstore? I hope not. I've supported that store since it opened, had just renewed my card last week, in fact, and I'd hate to see it go.

But after I saw what it looked like when they reorganized it, I guess it's not surprising that they're in trouble.

And it's not the fault of e-books.

The bad thing, besides losing a fun place to browse (I buy books on impulse in a way that I don't do online) if Amazon ends up being the only game in town, you can imagine what will happen to prices. $$$$$$$$$.

 

[Braxton]

B&N shouldn't have taken so long to get their own e-reader on the market. One thing they should have done earlier was to reinvent their stores and this is something they are trying to do now with the nook (nook only things in the store). People will go to places that are great to hang out and relax in. Let's face it, bookstores are great places to go and it will be a very sad day if B&N and Borders all close up shop. I don't think the idea can stand to live on its own and so it's important for them to try and make changes to keep their brick and mortar stores relevant. It's great to go to a bookstore and browse around. You find new authors to read, this is difficult to do online plus you have people that can suggest books to you (it's been my experience that the people that work at bookstores have read a lot of books). The attempt to take B&N private is a step in the right direction as it will allow them to make changes more quickly. I've been thinking of buying an e-reader myself and I was thinking of going with the nook but the new kindle looks better not only in design but in the specs as well (I'd prefer to support B&N though). B&N needs to get a new update out as well, although this is fast in terms of its life, it's necessary in order to keep their e-reader relevant. One advantage B&N has is that their stores are allowing people to see their product and talk with someone about it, which gives them an edge though not by much,

 

[Venardhi]

The games and toys have much better margins than books so I understand why they're in the stores, but most of them are a waste of space except for during the holidays and I'm glad my store only has a small selection.

At least in my store, "You can order it" means sending it to you directly at the online price, with free shipping(express for members). Most of the time a store is only modeled to have one or two copies of anything but a brand new or best selling title(or something that they know kids will be coming in to get for school, or is getting turned into a movie, etc.) So if that one or two sell out in a couple days on a fluke, that book wont be in the store for a few days. It is unfortunate but when you have thousands of books in a store, doubling up on even half of them just takes far too much space to be worth it and you'd have to get rid of even more titles. You can always check beforehand if they have it or not by calling or going online. You lose the fun of walking in and 'shopping' for it, but it better than wasted time if they aren't going to have it.

Growing up in a small town with two (mostly) used book stores, I never really approached book shopping the way I would with a video game or a movie. I was reliant on a couple old ladies who had no interest in sci-fi/fantasy, so anything on the shelf was good enough for me, and if I wanted the next book in a series I'd usually have to order it. I always have a stack of stuff to 'get around to' anyways, so waiting a few days is usually good for me.

Braxton: The nook has regular software updates, and will continue to for a while yet, but new devices are most certainly coming soon (as any gadget website has already reported a hundred times over).

 

[Unicron]

I had noticed, in the past half year, that when I'd go to get a book, often B&N wouldn't have it. "You can order it!" they'd say.

Got news for you. If I come out to your store and you can't even bother to stock books but want me to order it and then come pick it up, you can fuck yourself. I'll go to Amazon.

I loved going to browse and then buying a book, even though buying in person usually cost a few dollars more. But more and more, even new books were not in stock. "But you can order it!"

Last week I went to browse, with Mom and my husband. I hadn't been in about a month because I was away on vacation and busy. I couldn't believe what had happened to my beloved store in one short month.

They had cut their inventory way down. They had tons of overpriced toys and games. Got news for you. I don't go to B&N for overpriced toys and silly junk. I go for BOOKS. No one seemed to be buying the junk, everyone in line had books and books only.

It's sad. We lost our Borders not long ago. All of the used book stores around here are gone. Are we losing our last bookstore? I hope not. I've supported that store since it opened, had just renewed my card last week, in fact, and I'd hate to see it go.

But after I saw what it looked like when they reorganized it, I guess it's not surprising that they're in trouble.

And it's not the fault of e-books.

The bad thing, besides losing a fun place to browse (I buy books on impulse in a way that I don't do online) if Amazon ends up being the only game in town, you can imagine what will happen to prices. $$$$$$$$$.

That stinks, Bonz. My local B&N is actually more or less the opposite, at least in my own personal experience. They have a lot of good stuff, and while they're very good at ordering something if it's not there, they don't just expect customers to take that route. I sometimes go to my Books-A-Million for some things, as they tend to have a better selection of graphic novels and the like. But they're both good local stores.

 

[T'Bonz]

What sucks is that for years, this *was* a great store. Only at Christmastime would they junk up with overpriced toys/games and they usually had a book in stock. I don't mean books that are older, I mean new releases.

It was really disappointing. I had went in wanting to buy a few books based on what I saw online and they didn't have *one.* I ended up with one measly sale book (impulse buy) but I would have spent more had they had stock.

Toys and games may have a higher profit margin, but it's my experience that they don't sell well. Not when you can get the same toys/games *much* cheaper elsewhere. A bookstore is a bad place to buy a game/toys, price-wise.

 

[Venardhi]

You can actually reserve things online at your local store and get an e-mail or text message when the bookseller puts it on hold for you (or if they can't find it) so you never have to just hope they have it in stock when you get there. I imagine most of the big chains have similar systems these days.

 

[Amaris]

...and the usual speculation/tech wanking about the "death of print" and/or the death of "brick and mortar" begins anew.

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-wor...ble-didnt-evolve-enough?mod=career-leadership

I'm still not buying it. By now, if what all the pundits (who said "cyber" and "e" were going to destroy traditional commerce), was going to happen, it would have already happened.

People still read paper books. They still read paper newspapers and magazines. They still go to stores to get their groceries.

"E" is at best an adjunct to traditional commerce, nothing more.

Yeah, that's why e-reader sales have skyrocketed, ebook sales are increasing as paper book sales are decreasing, and many newspapers and magazines are going to online-only formats or folding entirely, right?

While I'm sure paper books will never go away, they will become a niche market the way vinyl records have--the mainstream will be digital, period. It might take 10 years, it might take 20, but that's the direction we're headed.

This. When the Amazon Kindle dropped it's prices to $139, I knew the age of bookstores as we knew them were coming to a close. Not just for that one incident, but for everything leading up to it. A fully functional and versatile e-reader is now the price of 5 regular hardback books.

That's not to say I don't lament the reduction in book stores. We lost all of ours years ago, and now I have to shop online to get one, or drive 30 miles north of here to peruse a dying Barnes & Noble. We used to have a tiny bookstore here in town called the Reading Room. It was the size of a small coffee shop, but the walls were lined with books, books in boxes, books on racks, books on tables, just everywhere. They closed down about 10 years ago, and were the last niche booksellers anywhere around, and while shopping online is easier, there's nothing like walking into a bookstore and just browsing. I love it, and I will miss it. I already miss it.