• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Hacking (my) online art...

Status
Not open for further replies.

deg3D

Captain
Captain
Re: Fairly Simple Photomanipulation
It's nice, but nope, ethically (and legally I might add (been there, done that in regard to my art trying to be hijacked), as all art is automatically protected under an artist's intellectual property rights), even if credited, you cannot ever use another artist's work without their express permission to do so. If permission is granted, it is then up to said artist if they would like credit to be given to them or not.

Otherwise, it's pirating and plagiarizing of another artist's work. No wiggle room, mind you: Case closed.

deg3D, the shuttle's yours, from one of your TOS.5 images.

I didn't have your permission to cut it out, remove all traces of the original context, flip it, rotate it, scale it to tiny, nor essentially make it utterly unrecognizable.

This being the case, do you insist that I remove the shuttle from the picture?

I can tell you that I had no malice aforethought. It was suggested that I insert a shuttlecraft, so I Googled for images. Yours came up, and happened to be the right angle to look like the shuttle was going away from the scene. The lighting was reasonable for the existing light angle, which was my primary concern.

Furthermore, intellectual property arguments aside, I'm curious how someone can be forced to stop using artwork that was publicly published on the Web?

Seriously, the bottom line is that when you publish something publicly to millions of individuals, there is absolutely no way to stop those individuals from re-using your art. It's simply a given of the medium that others may well do what I did.

I'm sorry, but it's true. No one can stop me from doing it, period. You might want to stop me, but you can't. The reality of what's called "intellectual property" completely falls apart when anyone can download anything from anywhere.

Furthermore, to argue that I shouldn't be allowed to do it is to argue in favor of a 100% police state. After all, 24x7x365 monitoring and enforcement is the only way to make sure I don't whip out the Gimp and start amusing myself late at night ...

The only way to keep people from not re-using your art, purely on a practical level, is quite simple: never, ever publish it. Don't let anyone ever see it. Who knows if they might, say, sketch it from memory -- thereby stealing your art?

Also, from the philosophical perspective, I'm unclear about something: aside from doing it digitally, how is what I've done here any different than making a collage?

Are you suggesting that students are stealing art whenever they do a collage for school?

Or is the objection that considerably more people will see my digital collage than might see it if I were a 4th-grader? Again, keeping in mind that I did it as a lark in my free time and am in no way charging anyone to see it.

Dakota Smith

The original thread was (rightly) closed, so I could not comment, and I have to address the above.

Whoa, hang on a second; you're also hijacking my art-work, the art-work I slave over (and also have slaved over for years to learn how to create), to realize my visions of how I see things, that I also then share with others for their possible enjoyment as well, and chopping (hacking) it up, destroying the context it was meant to be seen in by me (under my learned and practiced steam that I took the time and drive to learn and hone my skillz to do, mind you), altering it, and using it in your “collages,” as well?

I had no idea you were also using my art-work. One word: Unacceptable.

While all you say may be sadly true (although I could track you and come at you legally if I was so inclined), I have two words from my POV, my friend: Honor and (common) Courtesy.

I know this world has become a free-for-all in this day-and-information-age, with people thinking they have a right to anything for free online, just because they can get away with it, from music to movies to pictures/graphics just because it is available online, but that does not fly with me.

I am sO sick of peeps thinking JUST BECAUSE they can get away with something, that that's perfect justification and currency for doing so! No honor. Zero. Nada. Zilch. These are the same types that if they could walk into a store and be 100% sure they could get away with it, they'd put that CD in their coat-pocket and walk out with it, all righteous and self-satisfied to boot. Never-mind that they just stole from a place of business, but they also stole an artist's work. Yes work, as in that is what they do for their living. And I've heard the whole BS justification; Aw, they're mega-rich, they won't miss it. They're just fine. And I say to that; OK, fine, you're a middle-class self-entitled snot, why don't we just open the doors to your house and invite some homeless peeps to come in and take your iPod, your Blu-ray player, your HDTV, etc. then? After all, you're way-abundant in their eyes. It's all fraking relative. But some can't be bothered with that, no. Just because you CAN do something does not make it automatically OK-fine to do it. On a number of levels.

But like the old saying goes in regard to some things esp. philosophical or ethical; If you have to ask, chances are high you won't understand the answer. Or perhaps not want to be bothered to understand. Peeps want what they want, and other peeps between said desire be damned. That's how it gonna be, huh?

And ya know, if you had taken the small amount of time it would have taken to email or PM me to ask my permission, chances are I would have said; Sure, go ahead, just credit me. That's exactly what a senior flight surgeon from NASA just did earlier this week in regard to having found my work online and wanting to then use my art in one of his NASA presentations. He emailed me to ask my permission first. Wow, what a fraking concept! Yet, he had and understood honor and common courtesy. Something that seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs in this day-and-age of rampant self-entitlement and self-absorption.

And, instead of being like the space-doc and taking the small amount of time out to ask permission, you choose rather to even compound it all, and now take the time out (and the gall) to “Furthermore” and “Seriously” me, in regard to my artwork being pirated by you, or anyone. Wow.

I myself have used other artist's work from TOS Trek in my TOS.5 take, but I guarantee, if the artist(s) that had created the efx I used had not passed on already, I would have emailed them to ask permission, and honored whatever they decided on. As is, I gave them and the copyright holder credit (in my piece itself) by default, as I'm big on giving credit where credit is due.

You gots some odd ideas of things, IMO, bub. But I got better things to do with my time than try and teach life-lessons in regard to art, ethics and honor. And besides, the universe will take care of things, as what goes around comes around, so have it, eh. Your life. You wanna walk through it clueless, self-absorbed and without honor and as a hack (literally), using your energy to justify (to yourself) a way-less-than honorable act(s), just because you can, have at it. 'Nuff said, carry on, I've had me say, eh.



deg
 
Last edited:
Just out of curiosity, are you always crediting the guy who created the fonts you use on your site?
 
Just out of curiosity, are you always crediting the guy who created the fonts you use on your site?

Are you crediting the creators, writers, designers, make up artists and actors from the Twilight Zone in your avatar?

I sure as fuck aient crediting ABC and LOST/Terry O'Quinn and the vis Fx guys who created the smoke monster. Why? It's from a TV show. Mass produced, mass sold, a million fingers in the pie. ABC don't care that I made something from promotional images for my own use, its promoting the show because everyone knows what LOST is.

Not everyone knows who deg is, and they certainly wouldn't be able to tell its his work in that photo montage thingy from the other thread if it weren't for that person bragging he stole his shuttle.

I deleted my original post from the previous threads, because it looked like things were dying down, but the editor of the image and creator of the thread clearly didnt understand the implications of his actions, so im letting what I say here stand.

I'm a mod over at Sci Fi Meshes, and if the guy who stole degs image and then bragged about stealing it was over at SFM, he'd face a life long permaban from me. It's more the general attitude here than the actual act. Im sure if he'd apologized and credited/removed the shuttle deg wouldnt have felt the need to post this thread.
 
^ And? The guy who created the font and made it available for free* shouldn't get credited? I'm not getting what you are saying.

* If this indeed is the case.
 
Here's another question, though - are you just talking about moral rights or questions of ownership? Just about all Trek artwork and images belong to someone, whether the artists who designed and created them originally have "passed on" or not.

This is such a morass, on the Internet, that I decided ten years ago never to put anything online that I'm not willing to see appropriated. I ask for and very much appreciate people creditng me when they use my Lightwave meshes, for example - and I also appreciate the CG websites that require full artist credits on work posted there - but if I put them out there I'm willing for them to be public domain. I just sleep better that way.
 
^ And? The guy who created the font and made it available for free* shouldn't get credited? I'm not getting what you are saying.

* If this indeed is the case.

Well, there's the difference. The creator of a font makes it available for the intention of being used. No one goes to an art site and just displays a font. And yes, most fonts when posted will have license information regarding legal use of that font.
 
^ And? The guy who created the font and made it available for free* shouldn't get credited? I'm not getting what you are saying.

* If this indeed is the case.

Well, there's the difference. The creator of a font makes it available for the intention of being used. No one goes to an art site and just displays a font. And yes, most fonts when posted will have license information regarding legal use of that font.
Yes. And many type designers insist on being credited when you use their free fonts. I don't know whether this is the case here. That's why I asked in the first place.
 
^No, then again I never claimed to have created the image nor took credit for it in any way shape or form.
 
Matter o' fact, I did get my website font in a font-package I purchased waaaaaay back in my graphic designer days, before everything was available for free, legal or otherwise. If the artist has now chosen to make it available for free, great.

As to the rest, like I said, if you have to ask...

So no point beatin' a horse that has no intention of ever listening, let alone hearing what one has to say. Those who have ears to hear me; will, and those who can't or won't; won't. No biggie. I had my say, and one can file it wherever one likes.

I too don't get all worked up about this really, as yep, I know there are going to be those types out there that feel it's fine-OK to grab and do with other's stuff however they see fit within their own “sensibilities,” thus, I don't lose sleep over it.

For larger reasons, I just raise the counter-point (and will continue as I see fit), as well, it's my art this time around, and for the sake of the collective-consciousness energy-soup as a whole flowing around out there in the universe, that includes all humans. I enjoy giving voice to the counter-energy honorable POV, to at the very least, keep that vibe alive and living in the collective-consciousness, even if the tide seems to be toward the contrary. C'est la vie, whatever will be will be, and it's all good from my perch.

This all just reminds me of chapter 41 of ol' Lao-tzu's Tao Te Ching:

When a man of awareness hears of the Tao,
he immediately begins to embody it.
When an average man hears of the Tao,
he half believes it, half doubts it.
When a foolish man hears of the Tao,
he laughs out loud.
If he didn't laugh,
it wouldn't be the Tao.

Thus it is said:
The path into the light seems dark,
the path forward seems to go back,
the direct path seems long,
true power seems weak,
true purity seems tarnished,
true steadfastness seems changeable,
true clarity seems obscure,
the greatest art seems unsophisticated,
the greatest love seems indifferent,
the greatest wisdom seems childish.

The Tao is nowhere to be found.
Yet it nourishes and completes all things.


peace and long life | deg
 
Pretentious Chinese philosophy aside, nicking stuff and then trying to bullshit your way through it is not the act of a nice person. DakotaSmith should have asked, a simple common courtesy we would expect of anyone looking to borrow our stuff. If it was done by mistake or in good faith, you apologise. You do not blame the guy you plagerise for publishing it in the first place. Likewise the clumsy attempts at pointing out how much of other peoples work we use do not lessen the impact of someone in the same field believing that they are justified in claiming your work for themselves if they flip and rotate it.
 
Last year some nut was selling my deck plans on eBay. It was part of a CD "collection" he was auctioning. Several other artists he was also violating beat me to the punch by having the auction and the seller kicked from the site. Needless to say I was more than just a little pissed. Actually I have yet to get over it. (I have also taken steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.)

I can't speak for everyone here but I don't mind others using my artwork as long as the ASK first and give proper credit. I find it flattering when folks contact me wanting to use my work in their RPG's or fan fiction. My drawings have even shown up in a video game or two. However, I do draw the line at changes and modifications. You may use it but you will NOT start tinkering with it. I DO NOT want someone thinking I was the one that made the mess. Do what you want with your reputation but you will not be messing with mine. :klingon: I do spend time online policing my work and I will not hesitate to send my patented "Letter of Doom" if I find someone jacking around.
 
Pretentious Chinese philosophy aside...

The Tao labeled as pretentious; now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. :D

And if it's my use of it as so perceived, nothing could be further from the truth of my intention. But again, not all words are heard in the light of their true intention, esp. on the Internet. No news there, eh. Nice Jay avie, just the same. :)

All the hub-bub aside, nice to hear some like-minds on this subject of art and artists and hijacking.

Letter of Doom, LOL, Go get 'em, AstroSmurf! ;)

deg
 
Going around a Moderator, and reviving a topic from a thread that said Moderator has closed is not the wisest thing to do, deg... I would think any issue you had with the photomanip artist could have been addressed in a PM, rather than basically reviving a topic that has been closed. Nothing against you, and I'm not taking sides... just my two cents on the issue, is all.

EDIT: And since it was I who suggested that the artist include a shuttlecraft in the image, your anger should be directed at me, not the artist.
 
Going around a Moderator, and reviving a topic from a thread that said Moderator has closed is not the wisest thing to do, deg... I would think any issue you had with the photomanip artist could have been addressed in a PM, rather than basically reviving a topic that has been closed. Nothing against you, and I'm not taking sides... just my two cents on the issue, is all.

EDIT: And since it was I who suggested that the artist include a shuttlecraft in the image, your anger should be directed at me, not the artist.


Not really. He could have got it from anywhere, an official pic perhaps, but he chose to cut out someone Else's pic without their permission. It wasn't an accident, their continual reiteration of their righteousness on the issue is evidence of that.

And for what its worth, AstroSmurf's stance on the issue is my stance. Use a pic of mine without even asking, and there's hell to pay.
 
I am not really looking to scratch this itch but...

I was reading... elsewhere... that many feel that since we are treading all over Paramount/CBS copyrights to create our work than we shouldn't have a say what happens to our work based on Trek properties. I am not about to open that "can-of-worms" but I do want to make myself perfectly clear that my previous post was in regards to ALL of my artistic work, not just the Trek related stuff.

But I do have to hand it to Paramount/CBS. They do allow the fans a great amount of latitude when it comes to playing around with their property. I am grateful for that. It has brought a lot of joy over the years to a lot of us.
 
Preamble: I am a person with a minor in fine arts that does painting, photography (sometimes professionally,) and 2D/3D computer art with an interest in protecting my own copyrights. And I respect other peeps' desire to do the same.

However, copyright protections may not be the only things in play here.

So, someone needs to ask the elephant-sized question in the room: Would DakotaSmith's photomanip (or sojourner's avatar or BA's avatar or any of the other similar art found here) be considered as an exercise of the right to fair use? Because, contrary to what some have said in this thread and the other one, there are legal times when a person can use your work without permission, sometimes with ultimately huge benefits to the artists in question.

As I said, I have a vested interest in my copyrights but I also work as an instructor for this program, which means I have to balance between another's IP and what is fair use for my students on a daily basis.
 
If we can keep this discussion on the topic of IP, copyrights and fair use, I see no reason why it can't continue - it's valuable information and obviously there are a lot of questions to be asked or simply thought about. If it strays into personal jibes and accusations, the gate comes down and I must insist that no one attempt to revive it, either directly or indirectly. We can keep it civil, yes?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top