• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Wiped! Doctor who's missing episodes story

starsuperion

Commodore
Commodore
If you are interested in the story behind the missing episodes and what really happened, check this out..
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2010/08/wiped-doctor-whos-missing-episodes.html

Coming up from Telos Publishing next month is Wiped! Doctor Who's Missing Episodes - a book detailing the contentious aspect of the BBC's history, that of their wholescale throwing away of archive television recordings from the sixties, in a period leading to around 1977/8 when it was largely stopped by the intervention of concerned individuals. Richard Molesworth has painstakingly peeled back the layers behind these actions, finding out exactly what was destroyed and when, and then chronicling the attempts of fans to locate and replace the BBC's lost archive of Doctor Who material - with a large degree of success.
In the 1960s, the BBC screened 253 episodes of Doctor Who, starring William Hartnell and then Patrick Troughton as The Doctor. Yet by 1975, the Corporation had wiped the master tapes of every single one of these episodes. Of the 124 episodes starring Jon Pertwee shown between 1970 and 1974, the BBC destroyed over half of the original transmission tapes within two years of their original broadcast.

In the years that followed, the BBC, along with dedicated fans of the series, began the arduous task of trying to track down copies of as many missing Doctor Who episodes as possible. The search covered BBC sales vaults, foreign television stations, overseas archives, and numerous networks of private film collectors, until the tally of missing programmes was reduced to just 108 episodes.

For the first time, this book looks in detail at how the episodes came to be missing in the first place, and examines how material subsequently came to be returned to the BBC. Along the way, those people involved in the recovery of lost slices of Doctor Who's past tell their stories in candid detail, many for the very first time.
 
Last edited:
god, if i had access to a real working time machine, going back and saving copies of the missing episodes is the third thing i'd do.
 
Good timing. I finally caved in and bought the Lost in Time DVD set. So far, I've only had a chance to watch a couple of the early Patrick Troughton eps: parts 2 & 4 of "The Moonbase" & part 3 of "The Underwater Menace." "The Moonbase" looks really good. It's a shame that it's missing pieces.

I keep hoping that Cosgrove Hall will make some more animated episodes to fill in the gaps. I know they're expensive but come on! Maybe we should start some sort of Doctor Who Animation Restoration charity to raise money to fund new animated episodes.

Does anyone know the specific background of how parts 2, 3, & 5-8 of "The Invasion" were retrieved? I ask because I starting thinking: "It's especially a pity that part 4 is missing considering that's the one that contains the sequence of the Doctor & Jamie using a UNIT helicopter to rescue Zoe & Isobel. That's gotta be one of the most elaborate set pieces that the show ever did during the Patrick Troughton years." Then I started thinking: "Maybe the reason why that episode is missing is because it has such a cool helicopter rescue scene. Maybe the episode was taken by a fan who especially liked that scene or some sort of helicopter afficionado."
 
I've refrained from buying those sets. As much as I know I'd enjoy them, they'd only leave me frustrated in wanting more.
 
Does anyone know the specific background of how parts 2, 3, & 5-8 of "The Invasion" were retrieved?

Without digging out the references, I think it's pure chance which episodes of The Invasion survived, as they came back from different sources.
The same happened with some of the intact season six stories, like The War Games and The Dominators, where the BBC archives had accidentally retained a few episodes, and then the British Film Institute turned out to have the others.
IIRC, when the junking ended and the BBC started looking for missing episodes around 1979, the only complete Troughton stories were The Mind Robber and The Seeds of Death. [Ouch!]
 
I am old enough to have seen all the now missing episodes when I was a child or in my early teens. The lost stories I remember the best are The Highlanders and The Web of Fear.
 
I'm curious as to how a book like that will sell. I mean it's great that a book devoted to such a topic is being released yet most of the information is available online.
 
I'm curious as to how a book like that will sell. I mean it's great that a book devoted to such a topic is being released yet most of the information is available online.


believe it or not, there are still people who live without the net..so the book helps those who will not help themselves.. and I suppose it is for those who collect books..I like digital books, but I hate just downloading them, I would like to have a tangible object to place on a shelf, and know that there is a master copy in case of memory problems..so I can upload the data if need be.. otherwise downloading a book and then keeping it in the ipad, or the knook reader is just asking to loose your money if the thing ever dies..
 
I wonder how many US stations have some in storage.... Ahem WGN in chicago and PBS

IIRC, Doctor Who didn't really catch on in the U.S. at all until the Tom Baker years. I sincerely doubt that there would be many if any old prints of the William Hartnell or Patrick Troughton years, rare or otherwise, in the U.S. (Although, I could be wrong about that. My mother swears that she remembers seeing pictures of Patrick Troughton back when she was in high school in Arizona. She has never been a sci-fi fan at all but I gather that she knew a lot of hardcore Trekkies on the yearbook committee. It's come a little bit in handy while raising me.;))

I'm curious as to how a book like that will sell. I mean it's great that a book devoted to such a topic is being released yet most of the information is available online.
believe it or not, there are still people who live without the net..so the book helps those who will not help themselves.. and I suppose it is for those who collect books..I like digital books, but I hate just downloading them, I would like to have a tangible object to place on a shelf, and know that there is a master copy in case of memory problems..so I can upload the data if need be.. otherwise downloading a book and then keeping it in the ipad, or the knook reader is just asking to loose your money if the thing ever dies..

While I think the internet is a great source for tidbits of information, if I'm going to be reading something really long and involved (and hopefully engrossing), I'd prefer to do it reclined in bed with a nice paperback rather than at the computer. And honestly, these kinds of stories are often some of the ones I'm most interested in. I'm not much of a fiction reader but I must've sped through "The Greatest Sci-Fi Movies Never Made" at least 3 times.
 
I wonder how many US stations have some in storage.... Ahem WGN in chicago and PBS

IIRC, Doctor Who didn't really catch on in the U.S. at all until the Tom Baker years. I sincerely doubt that there would be many if any old prints of the William Hartnell or Patrick Troughton years, rare or otherwise, in the U.S. (Although, I could be wrong about that. My mother swears that she remembers seeing pictures of Patrick Troughton back when she was in high school in Arizona. She has never been a sci-fi fan at all but I gather that she knew a lot of hardcore Trekkies on the yearbook committee. It's come a little bit in handy while raising me.;))

I'm curious as to how a book like that will sell. I mean it's great that a book devoted to such a topic is being released yet most of the information is available online.
believe it or not, there are still people who live without the net..so the book helps those who will not help themselves.. and I suppose it is for those who collect books..I like digital books, but I hate just downloading them, I would like to have a tangible object to place on a shelf, and know that there is a master copy in case of memory problems..so I can upload the data if need be.. otherwise downloading a book and then keeping it in the ipad, or the knook reader is just asking to loose your money if the thing ever dies..

While I think the internet is a great source for tidbits of information, if I'm going to be reading something really long and involved (and hopefully engrossing), I'd prefer to do it reclined in bed with a nice paperback rather than at the computer. And honestly, these kinds of stories are often some of the ones I'm most interested in. I'm not much of a fiction reader but I must've sped through "The Greatest Sci-Fi Movies Never Made" at least 3 times.


I agree, there is a certain magic in fine printed works.. the smell of the books, the feel of the paper, and the tangibility of the thing to move at your own speed through the pages..

actually i remember growing up in Louisiana, there was a massive underground Doctor who following, and I know for certain that the Local PBS stations of the Texarkana area own some classic black and white who, which may or may not be something missing..(those people are sitting on an extensive library)..but I could swear to god, that I saw a clip from a doctor who episode that I swear has Patrick troughton and is part of the Dalek's with the emperor..or the supreme dalek.. either way.. I know that some stations may have a copy they purchased from lesser countries and or the BBC and may have run once or twice.. there may not have been a huge following of the doctor who back then for broadcast, but I am sure that there are obscure stations here and there, which did play it.. and if so, then they should be more forth coming with their films... I think a nationwide search should go into effect, cause until recently, I didn't even know there were missing episodes, and doubtless any other fans like me know this as well..

and I considered myself a knowledgeable person on things of a Whovian culture..

so regardless of those who can find the info on the net, I am glad this book is circulating, and I hope some person in some far off TV affiliate station here in the US comes across a storage compartment of some sort, or room, and in this room they find doctor who film canisters, and just by chance, the guy pulls out of his pocket this new book, which then has a list of the lost episodes, and this kid, or guy, or lady matches them up to the films, and we all get a wonderful surprise..

wishful thinking.. but it could happen just that way, we never know.. so I am supportive of this book and hope many copies end up in sci fi bins and shops here across the pond..
 
I agree, there is a certain magic in fine printed works.. the smell of the books, the feel of the paper, and the tangibility of the thing to move at your own speed through the pages..

Giles? Is that you?;)

actually i remember growing up in Louisiana, there was a massive underground Doctor who following, and I know for certain that the Local PBS stations of the Texarkana area own some classic black and white who, which may or may not be something missing..(those people are sitting on an extensive library)..but I could swear to god, that I saw a clip from a doctor who episode that I swear has Patrick troughton and is part of the Dalek's with the emperor..or the supreme dalek.. either way.. I know that some stations may have a copy they purchased from lesser countries and or the BBC and may have run once or twice.. there may not have been a huge following of the doctor who back then for broadcast, but I am sure that there are obscure stations here and there, which did play it.. and if so, then they should be more forth coming with their films... I think a nationwide search should go into effect, cause until recently, I didn't even know there were missing episodes, and doubtless any other fans like me know this as well.

It might be worth checking out. Now, we just need to find people with an in at these old PBS stations. (But be extremely cautious when searching through old film cans. They may contain a lost Hartnell or Troughton episode but they might just as easily contain circus people that want to kill you.:eek:)

I was watching the documentary about the lost episodes on the Lost in Time DVD set. It's ironic that, for many stories, the only clips that still survive are the bits that the Australian TV censors specifically didn't want people to see. It's like a 10 minute montage of people getting stabbed. It's also ironic that many people holding rare film prints of lost episodes thought nothing of them at the time. They figured that the BBC was a large corporation that had its shit together and that they already had multiple copies of each episode. Otherwise there wouldn't be random episodes being sold for 8 pounds at a car boot sale.:brickwall:

Seriously, you hear this about a bunch of old BBC shows from the 1960s. But have you ever heard of genuine lost episodes of American TV shows? As far as I know, the canon of The Andy Griffith Show, The Dick Van Dyke Show, & I Love Lucy are all complete.

I suppose there are occasionally little lost bits of American TV, but they seem much rarer. In the 1980s, when Paramount released "The Cage" on VHS, all of the clips that hadn't been aired as part of "The Menagerie" were only available in black & white. I don't think it was until the mid-1990s that Paramount rediscovered the full color version of "The Cage."

IIRC the "lost" episodes of The Honeymooners aren't actual episodes at all but rather Honeymooners skits cobbled together from other TV shows and later edited together into episodes.

I once had a VHS tape called "Lucy's Lost Episodes." However, it wasn't actual episodes either. It was a collection of random Westinghouse promotional films, Ed Sullivan appearances, What's My Line appearances, etc. by Lucille Ball, Desi Arnaz, Vivian Vance, & William Frawley, usually not in character. Or rather, they'd be pretty much playing their familiar I Love Lucy archetypes but referring to each other by their real names. (Actually, the best bit on that video was a Bob Hope sketch where we saw what I Love Lucy would have looked like had Lucille Ball married Bob Hope instead of Desi Arnaz. So you had Bob Hope playing an oddly unethnic Ricky Ricardo, Desi Arnaz as Fred Murtz, & William Frawley as the sea captain who ran a trained seal show.)
 
BTW, has there ever been a systematic U.S. search for lost episodes? I mean, I'd figure that the BBC might try to be thorough with this. But then, if the BBC were truly organized & competant, they wouldn't have lost them in the 1st place! I guess I'm just trying to figure out a resource where I could begin a search and see what sorts of searches have already been done. What's a good page for this? (The Wikipedia page only has some cursory information.)
 
There is quite a lot of early US television missing (the biggest single thing being the archive of the 1950s Dumont network, which still existed until the late 1970s but was then junked by whoever owned it).

But, with America moving over to film rather than live-ish video way ahead, and many of the shows being made by established film studios, they did tend to take better care of anything that had been recorded on film.

In contrast, BBC programmes were split between three departments: Engineering had responisibility for the videotapes on which most programmes were made; BBC Enterprises made film copies to sell overseas; and any film copies that had been used internally got sent to the Film Library. Only the Film Library had orders to keep anything it got.
So, about five years after transmission, Engineering would reuse the videotapes, safe in the knowledge that Enterprises had film copies of them all. Enterprises would keep its film copies until the seven year contracts that allowed them to sell them overseas expired, and then get rid of their 'surplus' and 'unsaleable' copies, And the Film Library assumed that either Enterprises or Engineering had all the stuff they didn't, until a new head decided to use Doctor Who as a check on it all...
In other words, the three bits of the BBC never checked with each other in case their copy was the last one in existence.

As for finding lost episodes in the States... very unlikely. AFAIK, the first episodes to be run in America were the package of Pertwee stories which were sold there around 1973. That's the source, either from NTSC broadcast tapes or off-air recordings, for the colour versions of about half of the Third Doctor stories.
It's possible that a US vault has colour copies of the B&W Pertwee episodes (Ambassadors of Death and Mind of Evil would be most useful), but after 30 years of checking they must be very badly misfiled if they're there.

However, there could be missing Troughton/Hartnell episodes in Canada, as they were shown there during the 1960s. Somewhere there's a comprehensive list of which countries bought (or asked for viewing copies before not buying) of each story.
On the basis of that list from the missing episodes, Seasons Four and Five are least likely to exist, but had extensive enough sales for there to be hope, and there's a paper trail which shows many of them sent to a certain warehouse in New Zealand. If a memo shows what happened to them next, it might be a lead (or a dead end, if the address is 'An Incinerator[).

The most likely story to be recovered is, in theory, Marco Polo. It's an oddity that it's missing as the rest of seasons one (barring Reign of Terror whose fate during the 19774 Cyprus war seems to be well stablished) and two survive (apart from the Crusade, which wasn't sold to the Arab countries, from where the rest of the season
one and two copies were sent back, some with 2nd option Arabic dubbing)
In addition, it was sold to more countries than any other serial of the 1960s. That might be why it's lost - prints were cycled from one country, so five prints might be shuffled between 25 studios without anyone having permanant care of it).

The wild card is that Marco Polo might just be in the US. Disney approached the BBC about making a film version of it. It didn't get far, and the evidence is Disney was only sent some scripts, photos and background. But just maybe, we can dream that there's a complete copy of Marco in the Disney Vaults.

Inverting Marco Polo - most sold story, but totally incomplete -is the Dalek Masterplan. Almost every overseas TV station turned it down flat, One set of viewing copies (of Mission to the Unknown, Masterplan 1-6 & 8-12) were sent to Australia, and judged to be so horrific they had to give it an A (X, 18,R etc), and that was on the plot, not little incidents that could be edited out.

So, Masterplan was never shown overseas, and never repeated in Britain. In addition, the 7th Xmas episode was never transferred to film as it would be excluded from overseas runs. It looks to be the least likely story for anything to survive, but three of the 12/13 episodes have been recovered, A llittle bit of luck and I think there might be more - Though The Feast of Steven (ep7) is, I'm sure, gone for ever, and ws before William Hartnell left the part.
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top