Year of Hell - Something a miss

[Anwar]

...but isn't the theme of "YOH" obsession?

Yes, but it's also facing up to what obsession does to you and the negative impact. Annorax couldn't escape, but Janeway and Chakotay did. And thanks to what they did through self-sacrifice, the events that caused his obsession never occurred thus inadvertently freeing him.

He can put it aside for awhile but the fact that he's still working on the calculations at the end of the ep. still, shows he's not having second thoughts. At least too me he's not.

It's personal opinion, but those equations could easily be something else or he could just get them wrong this time around. Like I said, we don't know just HOW the retcon gun changes things.

Also, if the equation exists. What's to stop someone else from doing it?
Wasn't it a military funded weapon?
Didn't he build it to use it in a war?

Yes, but maybe this time around he simply didn't get it right and a highly respected Professor like him not getting it to work simply had the whole program canceled as a failure.

 

[stj]

Either there was a timeship, or there wasn't. "When" Janeway destroyed the timeship, only a timeline where there was no timeship would exist. What we saw was the divergence between timelines affected by the timeship and timelines unaffected by the timeship. The suggestion is that this was a key conceptual moment in the creation of the timeship. By a wonderful dramatic irony, Annorax, obsessed with re-creating his dead wife, gets her back by himself "dying."

When you think about it, it is unusual to end a series episode on a scene without any of the regular cast. This suggests to me very strongly that, consciously or not, the writers/producers thought of this as Annorax's story. The Annorax story still holds up.

As much fun as the "beat up the ship and the cast" story was the first time around, on repeat viewings I find that it gets more and more implausble. The ramming scene in particular no longer has credibility (which makes "Time's up!" winceworthy.) The scene where the nebula leaks into the ship like a fog is awfully stupid.

 

[exodus]

Yes, but maybe this time around he simply didn't get it right and a highly respected Professor like him not getting it to work simply had the whole program canceled as a failure.

This ain't the Federation.
No government is going to give up on a project that gives them a tactical advantage in a time of war. We're talking about people that live in a quaderent full of Vidiians, Borg & Hirogen. Having a better defense means survival.

 

[Anwar]

What I mean is that he'd conclude it couldn't work when it was still in its most basic equations and try out some other kind of Temporal Weapon that ended being less damaging to the Time-Space Continuum.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yes, but maybe this time around he simply didn't get it right and a highly respected Professor like him not getting it to work simply had the whole program canceled as a failure.

This ain't the Federation.
No government is going to give up on a project that gives them a tactical advantage in a time of war. We're talking about people that live in a quaderent full of Vidiians, Borg & Hirogen. Having a better defense means survival.

Hmm.

Lets go back to geology.

What if something in the core was rare.

INCREDIBLY rare.

Back in the 60s, the Dalek Masterplan included the handing over of a very rare resource integral to the construction of the daleks Time machine tot eh daleks which had taken the humans 50 years to collect.

The Voyager crew were only able to experiment with transwarp because then discovered something new and inscrutably rare, and the human space program was ass before it discovered naqadria which was rare to the point of being almost imaginary.

Removing the core from time might have made it impossible to farm/mine some incredibly rare and essential element to the device which would have required Krenim space to be in another entirely different quarter of the galaxy for them to have had a chance at repeating the construction effort.

Which would turn an engineer into a theoretical scientist quite quickly, right?

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

ANNORAX: You surprise me, Obrist, After so many years you still perceive time through conventional eyes. Never is a word that has no meaning here. As long as we stay on this vessel, protected from space-time, we have all eternity to accomplish our mission.
OBRIST: Of course, sir.

Oh you mean like using "years"?

Isn't that conventional?

Besides, why don't they age anyway? That makes zero sense. Aging is a cellular process that continues the same way ALL life processes continue. Saying you don't age is stupid.

 

[Guy Gardener]

ANNORAX: You surprise me, Obrist, After so many years you still perceive time through conventional eyes. Never is a word that has no meaning here. As long as we stay on this vessel, protected from space-time, we have all eternity to accomplish our mission.
OBRIST: Of course, sir.

Oh you mean like using "years"?

Isn't that conventional?

Besides, why don't they age anyway? That makes zero sense. Aging is a cellular process that continues the same way ALL life processes continue. Saying you don't age is stupid.

Yup, it's really bad science, Sliders bad, but it's what the writers thought was real and what they said was real and what is canon as ridiculous as it seems.

Nod, and move on.

 

[exodus]

Yes, but maybe this time around he simply didn't get it right and a highly respected Professor like him not getting it to work simply had the whole program canceled as a failure.

This ain't the Federation.
No government is going to give up on a project that gives them a tactical advantage in a time of war. We're talking about people that live in a quaderent full of Vidiians, Borg & Hirogen. Having a better defense means survival.

Hmm.

Lets go back to geology.

What if something in the core was rare.

INCREDIBLY rare.

Back in the 60s, the Dalek Masterplan included the handing over of a very rare resource integral to the construction of the daleks Time machine tot eh daleks which had taken the humans 50 years to collect.

The Voyager crew were only able to experiment with transwarp because then discovered something new and inscrutably rare, and the human space program was ass before it discovered naqadria which was rare to the point of being almost imaginary.

Removing the core from time might have made it impossible to farm/mine some incredibly rare and essential element to the device which would have required Krenim space to be in another entirely different quarter of the galaxy for them to have had a chance at repeating the construction effort.

Which would turn an engineer into a theoretical scientist quite quickly, right?

I thought you were debating on the side that it could still happen?

Doesn't this arguement destroy your standing?

 

[Anwar]

ANNORAX: You surprise me, Obrist, After so many years you still perceive time through conventional eyes. Never is a word that has no meaning here. As long as we stay on this vessel, protected from space-time, we have all eternity to accomplish our mission.
OBRIST: Of course, sir.

Oh you mean like using "years"?

Isn't that conventional?

Besides, why don't they age anyway? That makes zero sense. Aging is a cellular process that continues the same way ALL life processes continue. Saying you don't age is stupid.

Tell that to guys like Wolverine .

 

[Guy Gardener]

The hand book to the marvel universe (updated) 1986 was the first time I saw them mention that Wolverines healing factor retarded ageing and that he could be possibly as old as 200 years.

Which explains the hat.

His daughter in one time line is still catting it out with the Guardians of the Galaxy come the late 30th century.

Exodus, both sides are easily right and easily wrong since there's not enough information to establish clear facts, just enough to cock block some ideas over others.

I was thinking about what you said about Virtuoso. That's late season 6, after the huge leap forward past borg space in Scorpion and the massive rush they busied themselves into while borrowing Bob's (Twin Peaks RULZ!) slipstreamdrive in Hope and fear... Wait? When did they steal the coil? Dark frontier? But that means that crossing Krenim space after a 97 percent(i think that's the number) restoration in the beginning of the first episode of year of Hell would have taken Voyager 30 to 40 years to cross at conventional speeds.

That's big.

It only took Captain Chakotay a year to get through, so it would seem that wasn't the most virgin timeline, but then were they trying for a 100 percent restoration of what they had before it all started or a hundred percent restoration of the best timeline holding an ideal Krenim Empire?

But in either case it would seem that some one destroyed or kennelled the Borg.

 

[exodus]

ANNORAX: You surprise me, Obrist, After so many years you still perceive time through conventional eyes. Never is a word that has no meaning here. As long as we stay on this vessel, protected from space-time, we have all eternity to accomplish our mission.
OBRIST: Of course, sir.

Oh you mean like using "years"?

Isn't that conventional?

Besides, why don't they age anyway? That makes zero sense. Aging is a cellular process that continues the same way ALL life processes continue. Saying you don't age is stupid.

Tell that to guys like Wolverine .

Wolverine still ages, by "Days of Futures Past" he has gray hair.

However, didn't Oberist in "YOH" have gray hair at his temples? So, I'm guessing they are aging. Just slowly.

 

[Cyke101]

Ah, yes, the sign of a great Trek episode: when, over 10 years after its premiere, people are still talking about it in a science-turns-philosophy-and-back sorta way!

 

[Guy Gardener]

But... we talk about every episode, and the worst ones ten times more than the best ones.

 

[Cyke101]

But... we talk about every episode, and the worst ones ten times more than the best ones.

But do those bad episodes contain science & philosophy mash-up debates? I don't think I've ever recalled seeing that kind of back and forth in, say, Threshold.

 

[DonIago]

You don't find Paris losing his tongue to be a compelling subject for debate?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Mankinds destiny to transform eventually into Salamandars? The people of Skaro had to deal with a revelation like that once and their solution was somewhat novel.

The Special addendum to the Prime Directive as man (the federation) breaks the transwarp barrier. Consider, all the species the federation will have to remove themselves from contact once they become that significantly moretechnologically sophisticated than the bumpkins waddling around at merely "warp"? Janeway was destroying the way of life ( in a good way) of every citizen of the Federation and barely paused to consider it.

 

[DanCPA]

I think that the core destroys Anorax's weapon. It's entirely possible that someone else took up his work and succeeded. Or that someone else took up his work, but were unable to make the leap to operational status before the technology/idea was destroyed during the cultures assimilation by the borg.

 

[Cyke101]

Mankinds destiny to transform eventually into Salamandars?

It would be valid, had the episode followed the premise of evolution to begin with.

The Special addendum to the Prime Directive as man (the federation) breaks the transwarp barrier. Consider, all the species the federation will have to remove themselves from contact once they become that significantly moretechnologically sophisticated than the bumpkins waddling around at merely "warp"? Janeway was destroying the way of life ( in a good way) of every citizen of the Federation and barely paused to consider it.

But was any of that ever hinted at all by the episode? At least Year of Hell left on a pseudo-cliffhanger, which followed the very dangerous consequences that two episodes spent on such a problem.

 

[exodus]

Mankinds destiny to transform eventually into Salamandars?

It would be valid, had the episode followed the premise of evolution to begin with.

No worse than Barclay de-evolving into a spider in TNG "Genesis". Seriously, man evolved from spiders?

 

[Praxius]

Mankinds destiny to transform eventually into Salamandars?

It would be valid, had the episode followed the premise of evolution to begin with.

No worse than Barclay de-evolving into a spider in TNG "Genesis". Seriously, man evolved from spiders?

All our genetic makeup can be linked back to all other species if you go back far enough, as before we were primates, life on earth began as single celled organisms..... which monkeys, spiders, elephants, threes, plants, etc. all come from as well.... believe it or not, but to some very remote degree, everything is related.

What happened in Genesis would probably be very very unlikely to occur, which is why they invented Barclay's genetic illness and invented a cure which doesn't exist to create the story we know today.

Now while there's all sorts of room to argue about the legitimacy of Genesis (which is there no real legitimacy since it revolves around future illnesses and future cures which don't exist today).... and while this Year of Hell story also can be argued based on it's legitimacy since there is no such thing as a time ship as described in the episode..... the whole concept of time and the whole concept of the episode itself to make some sort of sense is still worthy of debate.... if at least for the excuse to bounce ideas around.

But... we talk about every episode, and the worst ones ten times more than the best ones.

But do those bad episodes contain science & philosophy mash-up debates? I don't think I've ever recalled seeing that kind of back and forth in, say, Threshold.

Who cares what we're debating or how? Apparently some people in here are interested in discussing some of the logic/concepts used in the episode & story, regardless of how flawed it may be.... none of this is suddenly going to change our lives any.... it's just to bounce ideas off of one another and if you think it's pointless and a waste of time, then move onto another subject and stop shatting on those who want to talk about this.

I don't go into the threads others find interesting yet I find stupid and shatting on those in that particular thread to some how make myself appear to be all superior in someway.

Nor did I realize there was some 10 year time limit on when everybody is allowed to have their say on a particular story before they're mocked as some mere dumblings.

*bows* please accept my most sincerest apologies oh great grand master of all things wise and profound, for I was ignorant on your pre-existing rules of what we're all allowed to talk about without patronization and mockery..... *waves hands in air* OH LORDY LORDY I have Wronged!!!

Some food for thought: Not everybody in here has seen the episode the same day as it originally aired on TV.