Why was the USS Oddessy so useless?
- Thread starter Infern0
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^^Give how irate some fans get about Janeway dying in a "non-Voyager" book, destroying the E-D in a "non-TNG" series I can only imagine would ruffle far more feathers. Blowing up the hero ship for a series in a one-hour episode of tv (albeit a series finale)?
I think you're underestimating the uproar that would have ensued.
^Yes, the future of the TNG movies would have been severely impacted as well.
I think you're underestimating the uproar that would have ensued.
^Yes, the future of the TNG movies would have been severely impacted as well.
I don't think I addressed the question of fan uproar at all, because I was restricting myself to in-universe considerations. In-universe, the crew of the U.S.S. Odyssey was just as good as the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise-D and fared no worse than Picard and Company would have in the same situation.
Obviously, out-universe, the writers would never kill the TNG crew in a DS9 episode. That's the point of making the Odyssey captain a Picard surrogate.
I think the budget wasn't there to make the Odyssey move. Even though it was a model filmed on a blue screen. Why didn't they make the bluescreen moving stars instead of still space. It would give the illusion the Odyssey was not just sitting still with a giant kick me sticker on its back. Had they started using CGI earlier then the Odyssey probably would have given a bit of a chase before being blown up.
Its a bit stupid of Behr to say if it had been the Enterprise. It never would have! They had a movie coming out or was it already out?
I don't think Keoh's character was foolish or incompetent even though he came across as a prick. I never understood the spat between him and Dax. It was written lazily to add tension but it came from nowhere and didn't go anywhere. At the very least we could have had Dax Do a Data impression when he blows up the bird of prey in generations! "YESSSS!!!"
Its a bit stupid of Behr to say if it had been the Enterprise. It never would have! They had a movie coming out or was it already out?
I don't think Keoh's character was foolish or incompetent even though he came across as a prick. I never understood the spat between him and Dax. It was written lazily to add tension but it came from nowhere and didn't go anywhere. At the very least we could have had Dax Do a Data impression when he blows up the bird of prey in generations! "YESSSS!!!"
As I recall, the Oddessey (and StarFleet) had never encountered weapons like the JemHadar ships possessed; so they were unable to properly toon their defense; AND the Captin was shown as a bit arrogant and overconfident (which I liked because it in a sense showed how complacent StarFleet had become in the era since Kirk.)
Because the Runabouts survived and made it back, StarFleet now had some info on Jem hadar weapons and could strart adjusting Starfleet systems to defend against them accordingly.
I had no prblems believing that the Oddessey went out in the manner it did; and in fact thought it was a good sequence.
Because the Runabouts survived and made it back, StarFleet now had some info on Jem hadar weapons and could strart adjusting Starfleet systems to defend against them accordingly.
I had no prblems believing that the Oddessey went out in the manner it did; and in fact thought it was a good sequence.
Robert DeSoto
Lieutenant Commander
Federation shields were useless against Dominion weapons at first. Even in the next episode, the Defiant got smashed up pretty bad by three Jem'hadar attack ships.
What I find stupid is that the IKS Rotarran can destroy a Jem'hadar ship with a couple shots, when a Galaxy class ship can't. There is no way a Klingon Bird of Prey can match the firepower of the USS Defiant or even the USS Oddysey.
What I find stupid is that the IKS Rotarran can destroy a Jem'hadar ship with a couple shots, when a Galaxy class ship can't. There is no way a Klingon Bird of Prey can match the firepower of the USS Defiant or even the USS Oddysey.
You've had 13 years!Awww, I hadn't gotten that far in the game, now you've spoiled it
Interesting thing about that game, there was two endings, one that ended similarly to the movie, and another one where the E-D actually survived.
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(I only know about this from the cinematics on the disc, I never got past that mission where Data was attacked by dart-spitting plants.
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^ The ending where the Enterprise-D survived was nearly impossible to achieve. To get that ending you had to pilot the Enterprise through extensive combat. The first wave consisted of a mix of Romulan Warbirds and Chodak Dreadnoughts. Then you would fight a wave of BOPs then, if you were still alive, Soran's Vor'Cha would decloak and it was nearly impossible. I managed to get to it once out of several attempts and it tore through me like a knife through butter. Then again I was out of torpedoes and had massive damage.
Given all the TNG fan edits on Youtube, I'm surprised no one has attempted to do this.
Or this would be one of the few times that a Starfleet crew got to escape pods on time. Or they'd do some magical technobabble and have the bridge detach and the runabouts tow it before Picard and the Senior Staff died (Geordi would've worked from the bridge and maybe Doctor Crusher was treating an injured crewman).
Certainly it was budget and technical limitations, and that's really no different than trying to reconcile dialogue with on-screen action in a TNG episode. (ie, why the dialogue states phaser fire at hundreds of thousands of kilometers apart but on screen we see the ships nearly nose-to-nose). Additionally, because of the way runabouts and fighters were zooming around, and since around this time we saw Voyager flying fluidly in battle, I believe the DS9 producers could have had a zooming Galaxy.
Still, there's a very real difference between the battle scenes pre-Jem'Hadar and post-Jem'Hadar for DS9 and TNG, and I myself am simply putting out a theory as to the change in battle styles that seemed to sweep Starfleet and reconciling it with more advanced special effects.
Or this would be one of the few times that a Starfleet crew got to escape pods on time. Or they'd do some magical technobabble and have the bridge detach and the runabouts tow it before Picard and the Senior Staff died (Geordi would've worked from the bridge and maybe Doctor Crusher was treating an injured crewman).
Nope. It all happened too fast; there was no time for anyone to evacuate or even to formulate a plan. One second, they were on their way out of town, then next the Jem'Hadar hit them, the next they were dead.
Yes, and that's why they didn't write it as the Enterprise crew. Behr's point is that, from an in-universe perspective, if it had been Captain Picard and the Enterprise, they would not have fared any better than Captain Keogh and the Odyssey.
And the 1701-E would likely ended up being a reuse of the 1701-D model, or a heavily modified AGT refit.
They could have made it a mini-series crossover mega event with the death of the 1701-D being the big climax setting u the Dominion being pure ass-kicking for the next season.
Captain Keogh was a fool. The Oddessy had a vast photon torpedo armament which could have easily destroyed two out of three of those bug ships.
Also why wasn't ramming a tactic availble to the Federation? It is heavily implied that Fedeation metallurgy and structual integrity are among the best in the Alpha Quadrant.
Also why wasn't ramming a tactic availble to the Federation? It is heavily implied that Fedeation metallurgy and structual integrity are among the best in the Alpha Quadrant.
Same here - 13 years was not enoughYou've had 13 years!Awww, I hadn't gotten that far in the game, now you've spoiled it
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(I only know about this from the cinematics on the disc, I never got past that mission where Data was attacked by dart-spitting plants.
Then Captain Picard was a fool, too, for never using photon torpedoes in close combat.
...Which might have something to do with how their use in such a manner almost destroyed the E-D herself in "New Ground".
Apparently not a match for the best of the Gamma Quadrant... Or for the best of Remus, either, for that matter.
Where should Starfleet have rammed its enemies? When the Jem'Hadar did that, it was suicide - where did Starfleet have a reason to go suicidal? It would hardly be worth the sacrifice if one Starfleet vessel (big) took out one Dominion vessel (small) in a battle where the Dominion already outnumbered Starfleet.
Timo Saloniemi
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