Is the Star Wars saga better with Episodes I to III or worse?

[The Comedian]

Lucas should have had Obi-Wan and Anakin both fall in love with Padme.

Nothing can send a young man to the Dark Side faster than something like that.

Better than this "afraid of her dying" bullcrap.

It worked with King Arthur and friends. And would have added whole 'nother level of meaning to Obi-Wan and Vader's meeting, years later, on the Death Star.

 

[milo bloom]

As problematic as they were, I still feel they helped fill out the mythology of the SW universe a little bit more, and there's times I'll watch the OT and something will remind me of the PT, and it just feels a little bit deeper.

Though the Clone Wars animated series (both of them), have been far more enjoyable than any of the movies.

 

[Worfmonger]

Even if the prequels were completely flawless, how could they have ever lived up to anyone's expectations?

Yup yup.

You just can't ask me to take Darth Vader seriously after you show me the prequels.

E chop, yup yup.

There's a lot of good work in design, effects, and music. However, they fall down completely when it comes to storytelling. Also, and I thought I'd never say this about Lucas, but the editing in some cases is awful (e.g. Anakin/Dooku/Yoda duel). Ultimately, it tarnishes the OT legacy (which was already tainted a bit by ROTJ).

This, all this... except for the ROTJ part. Despite the issues with that film, I don't think the OT is tarnished by it... it's just, as my 5 year old daughter says, "Not my favorite."

Peace

Worfmonger

 

[Myasishchev]

and what the hell is that stuff about communing with Liam Neeson's character?

I didn't have a problem with that. The OT showed both Ben and Yoda disappearing when they died, kind of implying that's what happens to all Jedi. And yet Vader was confused when it happened, PLUS he became a Force Ghost after his death anyway. So, did he not know it was going to happen? On top of that, Qui-Gon DIDN'T disappear when he died, leading to a lot of confusion about who disappears, who doesn't, and what it takes to become a Force Ghost. And whether Vader should have been "worthy" to be a Force Ghost because of all the evil things he had done.

I wonder if it would have been possible to do a twenty-years-on head-asploding twist with that--with Obi-Wan and Yoda, in the OT, having been ghosts of the Force the entire time--and having been killed dead as doornails in RotS.

Maybe not. Luke refers to Ben Kenobi as if he's well-known. A shame, though, because aside from providing genuine surprise in a film series that, by default, has none, it would explain many of the OT's most glaring plot holes:

Obi-Wan's shit alias;
OWK selection of a hiding place twenty miles from Darth Vader's house;
OWK's quasi-deadbeat plan to pawn Luke off on some moisture farmer when he could more effectively have raised Luke himself;
OWK and Yoda's invisibility to the Emperor's otherwise exceedingly thorough genocide;
OWK and Yoda's laziness and outright cowardice in the face of the Empire, dicking around on Tatooine and Dagobah respectively while millions fought their archenemies, dying in their stead;
their disappearing act.

Indeed, these are almost all of major real problems with the OT! The remaining problem, Luke Skywalker, we'll just pretend isn't stupid and maybe rename Anakin "Starkiller," which no one would ever tell Luke because Anakin would probably be roughly as famous as Heinrich fucking Himmler, and you don't tell Gudrun Himmler her dad was an architect of the Holocaust if you don't have to.

UPDATE: girlfriend tells me this is a stupid idea.

 

[davejames]

I'm going to say "Worse" because my interest in the Star Wars saga has diminished greatly since the prequels.

Yeah that's pretty much my thinking too. Even thought the OT is so dramatically different in tone and style that you think it would be easy to separate the two, the prequels were just SO soul-suckingly awful and lame that they still ended up killing my interest in the franchise for a good long time.

Just hearing the name "Star Wars" was enough to make me cringe and run in the other direction. lol

But thankfully enough time has passed now that I'm starting to slowly warm up to the awesomeness of the OT again.

 

[Gaith]

the prequels were just SO soul-suckingly awful and lame that they still ended up killing my interest in the franchise for a good long time.

You mean the prequels "ARE" - so long as Clone Wars and other directly-PT-based stuff is being produced, they ain't over yet.

 

[shapeshifter]

While I do appreciate the things it got right, (and for those things I do still occasionally re-watch them, remote in hand with finger in the FF button) what it did badly outweighs the good.

Worse.

 

[davejames]

You mean the prequels "ARE" - so long as Clone Wars and other directly-PT-based stuff is being produced, they ain't over yet.

Yeah I know it's out there, but it feels about as inconsequential to me as any other movie-based cartoon that's come out over the years. And I find it pretty easy to avoid anyway.

Although I WILL admit the original Clone Wars cartoon had it's moments (and was probably the best thing, next to Darth Maul, to come out of the entire PT).

 

[suarezguy]

Better for giving some interesting action scenes, worlds and characters, especially with Palpatine rising and Anakin being corrupted, as well as showing the relative heyday of the Jedi (and showing that Obi-Wan was about as strict as he was cool, if not moreso ). They also inspired some alright comics, novels and games.

 

[JarodRussell]

The proper Star Wars saga for me includes Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, the first Episode I trailer and then my imagination.

The execution of Episode I-III simply wasn't... right... I dunno. Episode I had that annoying brat and annoying Gungans, Episode II was so over the top it wasn't even funny anymore, and Episode III, I dunno.

The worst thing about it is that from the very first moment we meet Anakin it's clear that he will become the bad guy. There was no tragedy in his downfall. There wasn't even a downfall, because he would have needed to be up somewhere before that.

The Anakin Skywalker described by Obi-Wan in Star Wars and shortly seen in Return of the Jedi was a much different character than the one portrayed in Episode I-III. I always imagined him to be older, wiser, patient, a person so good that he couldn't do harm to a bug. A person you would NEVER expect to turn to the dark side.

 

[davejames]

The Anakin Skywalker described by Obi-Wan in Star Wars and shortly seen in Return of the Jedi was a much different character than the one portrayed in Episode I-III. I always imagined him to be older, wiser, patient, a person so good that he couldn't do harm to a bug. A person you would NEVER expect to turn to the dark side.

Exactly. No matter how cool the lightsaber battles were, or how impressive the CGI, the fact Lucas turned Anakin into such a whiny, petulant brat completely killed the whole thing for me.

 

[DWF]

and what the hell is that stuff about communing with Liam Neeson's character?

I didn't have a problem with that. The OT showed both Ben and Yoda disappearing when they died, kind of implying that's what happens to all Jedi. And yet Vader was confused when it happened, PLUS he became a Force Ghost after his death anyway. So, did he not know it was going to happen? On top of that, Qui-Gon DIDN'T disappear when he died, leading to a lot of confusion about who disappears, who doesn't, and what it takes to become a Force Ghost. And whether Vader should have been "worthy" to be a Force Ghost because of all the evil things he had done.

The answers to all those questions can be extrapolated from that one exchange. No, there wasn't any contact with the dead before Qui-Gon found a way, so this is new. But it appears that anyone (or at least any Jedi) can become a Force Ghost if they have either enough training, or assistance from their comrades. (And it appears they can bypass the instant of their own death by leaping straight into the Force.)

Even though the PT had a lot of crap, I have to give it credit for answering so many questions so fast. Now, if only they had handled the prophecy so well....

Qui-Gon became a Force ghost in the end anyway, at the end of Ep. III Yoda told Obi-Wan that he had heard from his old teacher, I think in the end it was Qui-Gonn who taught Yoda and Obi-Wan how to do it.

 

[Gaith]

From 91 Reasons to Hate Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith:

Reason #87

Yoda's Training & Jedi Apparitions

Yoda lets Obi-Wan know that he has training for Obi-Wan while he's in solitude on Tatooine. Yoda has heard word from Qui-Gon Jinn and Qui-Gon has apparently "learned the path to immortality." This is, of course, an attempt to explain why everyone's favorite Jedi can always reappear as a Jedi apparition after their death.

The script and the novel both went into greater detail about how Qui-Gon Jinn communicated to Yoda and explained that he had learned a neat little trick about how to become "one with the Force" after death. It is a little difficult to swallow since Qui-Gon learned the secret of immortality after he died. But, I guess the Force midi-chlorians move in mysterious ways.

Another interesting question raised by this plot element is how Darth Vader seems to learn the same skill. Was he Force-eavesdropping on Obi-Wan while he communed with Qui-Gon on Tatooine? Did the Emperor teach him this trick? If so, why didn't the Emperor crash the party that the dead Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin had on Endor at the end of Return of the Jedi? Perhaps we will see the Emperor in the newer edition of Return of the Jedi when the six-film DVD set is released. I would fully expect a climax of 20 additional minutes where the three dead Jedi fight the dead Emperor using lightsabers. How will it turn out? We'll have to wait and see.

 

[ALF]

Wow. Congratulations to everyone. This is the longest I've ever seen on online thread on the topic [OT compared with PT] continue for 50 posts without any hardcore flaming!

Like it or hate it, the notion of prequels is never going to go away. Hollywood has been churning them out non stop since Menace... even Trek got the treatment in Enterprise and JJTrek!

I don't mind this... particularly when the story is good or at least entertaining... what I can't stand is sitting through origin stories that I know inside and out. Case in point: Spiderman is on the cusp of being rebooted and I'd read they are doing the high school spider bite origin movie yet again. Why do I need to sit through that again? Why can't they start a series when Spider-Man is already Spider-Man??

On topic, I had a private lesson with a student in Japan a few years ago. She told me she'd just watched Star Wars for the first time, episodes I-VI in that order. It was very interesting to hear such a viewpoint of someone who'd seen the series from the prequels to the OT. She said she enjoyed knowing Leia and Luke were siblings and that Vader was their father from the start.... so that's kind of fascinating. The generation of kids today have that same option.

I'd suggest my kids watch the OT first, but that's just because I think it's much easier to "sell" someone on Star Wars with A New Hope.

Most of the people who hate the prequels can't get past minor (for Star Wars films) quibbles like Jar Jar, the lame dialouge or the lack of "acting".

Having all the hallmarks of a terrible movie amounts to minor quibbles?

Haha! Fair enough. But really, Star Wars did so many things right the first time I think it should get special consideration.

It's also worth nothing that on certain levels ROTS > ROTJ.

I do agree with this. For the most part, my personal ranking of the movies is pretty set in stone (TESB > ANH > ROTJ/ROTS > TPM > AOTC), but I always waver with ROTJ and ROTS. It really depends on my mood, I think.

Ha! My ranking exactly Skywalker! Join me... together we can rule the galaxy as father and son!

Lucas himself said in a interview with Sky magazine a few years ago that most of the first film such as the pod races is simply filler, and that he wasn't particularly interested in Anakin as a boy (why he makes such a film is not answered).

Oh good lord. That man Lucas, he just loves messing with people's heads I think. Yes, the interviewer absolutely should have asked him why... although this does arouse a faint memory of mine saying that he "had to" make Menace a certain way because "that is the story, and that's the only way I can tell it properly", or something.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The worst thing about it is that from the very first moment we meet Anakin it's clear that he will become the bad guy. There was no tragedy in his downfall. There wasn't even a downfall, because he would have needed to be up somewhere before that.

They needed to depict him as an amazing golden boy, a big fat incredible war hero (of an epic war, not a pathetic squabble over trade routes or whatever the hell that was supposed to be) who was a legend throughout the galaxy for his bold exploits and wildly popular with the troops (who were real frakkin' people, not robots or clones), who would follow him anywhere, which is why when the time came for him to turn to the Dark Side (because of his one fatal flaw - hubris - not stupidity!!!! cmon, the guy who would become Darth Vader could certainly see thru Palps' little act) it became relatively easy for him to smack the complacent Republic upside the head.

There's a lot of stuff that needed to happen in order to pull that off, but two that spring to mind are 1) a more charismatic and likable actor as Anakin and 2) Large prorportions of II and III needed to be devoted to gripping scenes of combat, of the sort created for grownups, not for children. I mean, big, star-system spanning combat, not just two guys with lightsabers.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Truly, there are way too many lightsaber fights. RLM hit that nail on the head--I'd suspect 50% of the frames of the prequel trilogy have a Goddamn lightsaber in them.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Those articles are must read material...anyways I voted better. I have a love/hate relationship with the prequel trilogy that's hard to describe but like an earlier poster stated above me...my main problem seems to be with how the films were executed. I don't like how Hayden was forced to portray Anakin...he's a much better actor than he was given credit for. The way Anakin is portrayed in the Clone Wars series is much more how I would have written him. Brash. Confident. Not an arsehole and whiny bitch. That's not angst George. My favorite of the films is Episode III but I am partial to Episode I.

 

[montag01]

I'd have to say worse. So many aspects of the prequels feel like filler, or require the novelization to flesh out, that Lucas could have just made ROTS as a stand-alone movie and the audience wouldn't be too lost. Each prequel movie come across to me as being made up on the spot, with not much thought about their own continuity--much less the continuity with the OT. The addition of relatively minor details could have helped significantly--namely by getting all of Palpatine's various henchmen on stage early. For example, have Dooku on the Jedi Council during TPM as one of the Jedi who actively question Anakin's trainability; show Dooku's concern about the rise of the Sith, and leaving the Jedi order over Qui-Gon's death; show what a huge deal this is. This could, all told, have taken up about 5 minutes worth of screen time in TPM, and would have made AOTC and Dooku's execution in ROTS more interesting. But no, instead we're given Dooku as a suddenly introduced character--we have no idea why he's called a Count; in fact, having read no supplementary materials, I *still* don't know why he's called a Count. It is essentially the same pattern with General Grievous.

To be fair, the OT has its share of these problems, too. One of the more significant effects of making Luke and Leia into siblings in ROTJ is that it makes Yoda's last comments in ESB sound ridiculous. "There is another," as if they can afford to lose Luke and still be okay. But now we're supposed to believe that Yoda all along knew that Leia is Option Two -- but Leia is one of the people Luke is leaving to save, and one of the people that Yoda would casually let die ("If you honor what they fight for . . ."). So thanks to the half-assed decision to make Luke and Leia into brother-and-sister in ROTJ, Yoda in ESB now sounds completely inept, because he knows his Plan B is already captive to Vader. He should just agree with OBK and say, "You're right. Things are now a LOT worse."

 

[Gov Kodos]

I can always ignore the prequals, it is the monky work on the original films that irk me. Han shot first Dammit!

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Han shot first Dammit!

No, Han shot... and only Han shot! Greedo didn't shoot!