Opinions on TMP
- Thread starter Infern0
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I think quite a few of the concepts were good, just not the execution (subpar). There needed to be a lesser emphasis on the SFX (which were great, but too much filler) and more on the story and character development. I think TWOK, for its flaws, got that balance pretty right.
Good concept but poorly executed. The film is very... dated. Especially in comparison to the remaining films.
Harve Bennett, who got Star Trek back on track with TWOK, was called in by executives interested in making a sequel to TMP. At that meeting, all he could think of was how he had taken his kids to see TMP and they were squirming and asking to go to the bathroom, to the concessions, just bored out of their minds.
Not that there is a lowest common denominator, but Star Trek movies have to pass that test, the squirm test. If you're squirming because of boredom, with TMP, or out of embarassment (TFF) you have a problem.
It's ironic, Robert Wise has as much prestige as a director as anyone who has helmed a Star Trek movie, but he was perhaps the wrong choice. A more vigorous interpretation of the same story might well have worked. Give Nick Meyer this story outline, let him rewrite it for tone and shoot it his own way, and maybe we're debating whether TMP or TWOK is better.
Not that there is a lowest common denominator, but Star Trek movies have to pass that test, the squirm test. If you're squirming because of boredom, with TMP, or out of embarassment (TFF) you have a problem.
It's ironic, Robert Wise has as much prestige as a director as anyone who has helmed a Star Trek movie, but he was perhaps the wrong choice. A more vigorous interpretation of the same story might well have worked. Give Nick Meyer this story outline, let him rewrite it for tone and shoot it his own way, and maybe we're debating whether TMP or TWOK is better.
Sorry, can't agree. Loved the uniforms, loved the music!
I came to TMP quite naive about TOS, knowing mainly only random episodes of TOS and TAS. Luckily for me, I got so swept away by the pre-publicity newspaper interviews about the making of TMP, and a friend's enthusiastic description of the gala preview held in Sydney, that I bought and devoured the novelization and the LP soundtrack, then went to see the movie (about five times in as many weeks). Still my favourite film of all time, perhaps now tied with JJ's ST.
Therin, I agree with you for the most part. My one sticking point is the uniforms. Trek uniforms is one of my biggest pet peeves of all time. THe issues start from the simple fact that they were costumes not uniforms, and they were for the most part treated as such by the productions (TMP and TWOK being the best against that direction). TMP's uniforms were great in concept, but suffered from two distinct and different problems.
First, that the film doesn't do them justice. Having seen them in person at a trek exhibit many, many years ago now, I came to realize that they had far more detail and quality to them than appeared on screen (at least home video wise, even bluray doesn't treat them fairly).
Second, and probably the biggest, was a lack of uniformity in wear. So many color and style combinations created visual confusion.
I think that, had they selected a slightly richer color scheme, and created a more uniform appearance in their actual wear, that it would have nailed it 100%.
When I was young I was bored by TMP (coming to it in the early 90's via videotape). Now I'm older I apreciate and enjoy it for what it is. It's flawed, but it's unique among Star Treks in it's execution and style. I like it.
I thought (and still think) the uniforms are terrible, I sympathize with TOS Klingon fans for the needless retcon from sly villains to dumb, bumpy-headed brutes (which began, but didn't end, with TMP), I think the Enterprise's thin nacelle struts are a huge design flaw and I hate what they did to the booming red alerts in the director's cut. I also get a big kick out of seeing the Shat's toupee moving back and forward on his head thoughout the movie.
There is one scene fron the extended (VHS) edition, where Kirk sits with a mononic look glued to his face while his chair headrest slowly extends that has me in stitches every time.
Oh, and I loved all the aliens on the Enterprise crew, and was trilled to see STXI take the same multispecies route.
I thought (and still think) the uniforms are terrible, I sympathize with TOS Klingon fans for the needless retcon from sly villains to dumb, bumpy-headed brutes (which began, but didn't end, with TMP), I think the Enterprise's thin nacelle struts are a huge design flaw and I hate what they did to the booming red alerts in the director's cut. I also get a big kick out of seeing the Shat's toupee moving back and forward on his head thoughout the movie.
There is one scene fron the extended (VHS) edition, where Kirk sits with a mononic look glued to his face while his chair headrest slowly extends that has me in stitches every time.
Oh, and I loved all the aliens on the Enterprise crew, and was trilled to see STXI take the same multispecies route.
I loved the movie - even though I was quite young, I was impressed at the thoughfulness of the story and the twist at the end. I think its problem is that it is overlong, lacking in action, and the special effects, which were mindblowing at the time, especially on the big screen, have become quite commonplace today, and many youngsters don't want to sit through them.
I also rather like the uniforms but lament their randomness. Different styles, no uniformity of rank insignia, no consistency within departments or among senior or junior officers or non-coms. Some have useful pockets and some don't, and the shoes are impractical. It was just baffling.
I still think that there was a lot of untapped potential among the crew and background aliens. There are a few TMP-era novels that are really good - Ex Machina and Traitor Winds spring to mind. I'm even doing a little photo-story using TMP stills.
I also rather like the uniforms but lament their randomness. Different styles, no uniformity of rank insignia, no consistency within departments or among senior or junior officers or non-coms. Some have useful pockets and some don't, and the shoes are impractical. It was just baffling.
I still think that there was a lot of untapped potential among the crew and background aliens. There are a few TMP-era novels that are really good - Ex Machina and Traitor Winds spring to mind. I'm even doing a little photo-story using TMP stills.
While I recognize the movie's flaws, it remains my favorite out of the entire franchise. The script was grounded in a solid science fiction concept, unlike any of the others, and the story told had the most in common with the original show. I agree the uniforms needed work, but the direction chosen for Wrath of Khan was way off. The effects were unrivaled in their time, and still hold up well today. And Jerry Goldsmith's soundtrack set the tone for all of Star Trek from that moment on.
The movie was also one of the most successful at the box office, easily earning back production costs and proving that Trek was a viable motion picture franchise. Despite this, Roddenberry's influence was seen as a negative by studio executives (perhaps it was), and it looks like an excuse was engineered to shoulder him aside and put other people in charge of the show.
I'd rather more movies like TMP littered the franchise than Wrath of Khan knock-offs. Properly handled, Trek movies might have been a vehicle for exploring a variety of science fiction concepts instead of just an excuse for blowing up spaceships.
The movie was also one of the most successful at the box office, easily earning back production costs and proving that Trek was a viable motion picture franchise. Despite this, Roddenberry's influence was seen as a negative by studio executives (perhaps it was), and it looks like an excuse was engineered to shoulder him aside and put other people in charge of the show.
I'd rather more movies like TMP littered the franchise than Wrath of Khan knock-offs. Properly handled, Trek movies might have been a vehicle for exploring a variety of science fiction concepts instead of just an excuse for blowing up spaceships.
There is most definitely consistency! There were a few rank identification changes from TOS, but the explanatory memos are reproduced in "The Making of ST:TMP". As for the uniform colours, they were also consistent, but did provide the same wide variety of choices offered to today's flight attendants, bicycle squad police, bank tellers, etc.
Officers could choose between the blue/grey or the beige. Uniform colours have nothing to do with the division colours we saw on TOS (the now-six division colours are on the colour patch behind the breast insignia). Non comms wore the brown uniforms. Specialists (medical, engineering, etc had a white jumpsuit for certain duties). Spacedock personnel had green uniforms.
The pocketed uniforms were the 23rd century version of overalls.
Agreed. These wonderful designs were swept away by the "new broom" effect of ST II. But, of course, the "over the head" latex masks of TMP were totally impractical for speaking roles, so some of those aliens were destined to be precursors of DS9's Morn. (Although the Morn mask was retooled in case he ever needed to talk; it was funnier that he only ever spoke - a lot - off-screen.)
An extended version of Space 1999 is what it is.
Part of the justification for the uniforms (color lack of uniformity etc.) came from Robert Fletcher..he mentioned that bright colors would probably be considered overly sexist in the egalitarian future that Star Trek represented and might detract from the Big Screen experience.
For me, the incorporation of the shoes into the uniform pants/jumpsuits just screamed footy-pajamas and was hard to ignore...
Pacing was off...probably due to the director more than anything.. Mr. Wise seemed to want a LOT of estabilishing shots.....the endless ride through the Vger cloud was not helpful, nor was the Vger close pass as the Big E was so tiny it was hard to see on the screen. I know some "size relationship shots" were required but I would have shown some closer shots of the Big E as well...
But I'm not a director... just a fan..I like the film...but unless I haven't seen it for quite a while..it can put me to sleep...
For me, the incorporation of the shoes into the uniform pants/jumpsuits just screamed footy-pajamas and was hard to ignore...
Pacing was off...probably due to the director more than anything.. Mr. Wise seemed to want a LOT of estabilishing shots.....the endless ride through the Vger cloud was not helpful, nor was the Vger close pass as the Big E was so tiny it was hard to see on the screen. I know some "size relationship shots" were required but I would have shown some closer shots of the Big E as well...
But I'm not a director... just a fan..I like the film...but unless I haven't seen it for quite a while..it can put me to sleep...
I think people's opinion of TMP has a great deal to do with their age/generation.
If they come to it having already gone through all the other TOS movies,
and TNG, and other series... I can understand unfavorable views.
Old farts like me formed an opinion when the ONLY Star Trek was TOS + TAS and that's it. TMP was THE Motion Picture. Makes a difference.
And even now, decades later, with ALL the ST that has come after it...
I still love it.
If they come to it having already gone through all the other TOS movies,
and TNG, and other series... I can understand unfavorable views.
Old farts like me formed an opinion when the ONLY Star Trek was TOS + TAS and that's it. TMP was THE Motion Picture. Makes a difference.
And even now, decades later, with ALL the ST that has come after it...
I still love it.
That's a fuckin' laugh! TMP has aged better than any of the other Trek films in most every respect. Particularly the DE version. It certainly looks more convincingly futuristic than everything else that's followed. Looking at it now it seems more genuine Star Trek to me than most everything that's followed in Trek's name.
That's a fuckin' laugh! TMP has aged better than any of the other Trek films in most every respect. Particularly the DE version. It certainly looks more convincingly futuristic than everything else that's followed. Looking at it now it seems more genuine Star Trek to me than most everything that's followed in Trek's name.
I agree with you Warped9.
It is funny to me whenever I read people complaining about TMP uniforms looking like pajamas because the same thing was said about TOS Starfleet uniforms back in the 1960s and 1970s.
The reason the shoes were sewn into the pants of TMP Starfleet uniforms is because the uniforms were beamed onto the person in the sonic shower, like in the scene in Lt. Ilia's quarters when the Ilia Probe beamed onboard naked.
TWOK Starfleet uniforms look like marching band uniforms to me, how realistic or futuristic is that?
TMP is my favorite Star Trek film. The sequels pale by comparison in my opinion.
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