Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

[Nerys Ghemor]

This probably has been asked, but I tried the search function and can't find a thread about it...

My question is, does the turbolift go sideways as well as up and down? Or do we just have to assume starships are just REALLY well laid-out so that you can get all the way from Ten Forward to the Bridge in no time? I really don't think it's the latter...but have we had any proof that by the 24th century, that turbolifts can't be made in a side-to-side version as well as a vertical one (if not a combined version)?

I'm writing a scene in The Thirteenth Order where I need to know this.

 

[DonIago]

Turbolifts have gone side-to-side since TOS...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I don't really know TOS all that well...anywhere where we see that happen or hear it mentioned?

 

[scotpens]

The lighting effect on the wall of the turbolift set clearly indicated horizontal as well as vertical movement.

From TMOST:

Obviously, efficient movement about such a large vessel requires mechanical assistance. This is provided by the ship's turbo-elevators. These high-speed lifts run both horizontally and vertically. Television story needs first made the turbo-elevators necessary. An action-adventure television show must move at a fast dramatic pace. And it became obvious in the first few episodes that this could be no mere “elevator” -- our characters had to get places horizontally just as fast. Once again, story needs resulted in a concept that was not only logical but necessary in a vessel of this size.

The turbo-elevators operate in a way similar to huge pneumatic tubes, each elevator independently turbine-driven, controlled by computer-activated relays in the shaft that control and direct the air pressure created by the turbines.

Of course, that last sentence is contradictory, since pneumatic tube systems don't work like that at all.

 

[DonIago]

Pick a random TOS episode and I'd say there's a good chance you'll see it happen...but to be fair I haven't seen a TOS episode in quite awhile now. I just vividly remember it occurring, seems like all the time. TPTB definitely wanted us to know the lifts could do that.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I don't remember seeing it on TNG or DS9...though in that case, given the layout of DS9 AND the fact that we have a transporter pad right in Ops, I think there's a fair chance the Cardassians might not have designed the station that way. Or maybe they had regular elevators AND turbolifts more like what the Federation had.

Did we ever see anything showing the turbolifts moving sideways in TNG?

 

[Timo]

There was a turbolift malfunction in "Contagion" where LaForge was thrown every which way, including sideways, during a wild ride... The ride apparently ended in a horizontal stretch of travel at reaching Main Bridge, since LaForge was forcibly thrown out there.

Also, in ST:Insurrection, there was an explicit, animated diagram showing turbolift movement, including long horizontal passages.

Apart from those, I don't think we saw anything explicit, or had the camera visit the insides of a horizontal turboshaft. But of course our heroes do get from the bridge to Main Engineering, or somewhere within very short walking distance of it, in one ride - which would be downright impossible on the E-D without horizontal turbolift movement, and is already highly dubious on the earlier, smaller Enterprises.

I'd argue that one of the main advantages of the turbolift over today's elevators is a side product of this sideways capability, not the capability itself. Namely, a turbolift is an independently moving vehicle that can easily change lanes and sidestep other traffic. This easily increases the capacity of the shaft network tenfold at least over the "network" of a modern elevator where cars cannot sidestep or change lanes, but must wait behind each other or then have whole lanes dedicated to just one cab. Imagine what New York would look like if there could only ever be one taxi cab per lane....

The ability to sidestep, or to park on the curb, is probably why there's a horizontal stretch at Main Bridge level on the E-D ("Contagion"). The shaft to that compact topmost deck is vertical all right, but there's a horizontal staging area there as well, allowing a number of turbolifts to wait for passengers so that there never are delays at this important lift station.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[sojourner]

Does the "Day of the Dove" diagram show any turbolift tubes?

 

[Timo]

That's anybody's guess. Cut'n'paste to see the Ex astris image:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/monitors/monitor-tos-hullpressure-dayofthedove.jpg

Drexler's onscreen diagram for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does show what he intended to be the turbolift tubes of the TOS vessel, but they aren't exactly labeled as such.

(Can't get the caps from TrekCore at this time. But it's a reproduction of this one, from the Captain's Chair CD-ROM.)

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/servalan/110/1701-cutaway.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RookieBatman]

I'd argue that one of the main advantages of the turbolift over today's elevators is a side product of this sideways capability, not the capability itself. Namely, a turbolift is an independently moving vehicle that can easily change lanes and sidestep other traffic. This easily increases the capacity of the shaft network tenfold at least over the "network" of a modern elevator where cars cannot sidestep or change lanes, but must wait behind each other or then have whole lanes dedicated to just one cab. Imagine what New York would look like if there could only ever be one taxi cab per lane....

Yeah, I always get annoyed when, in Trek books, they talk about a character waiting for a turbolift car. What, they don't think that problem will be solved in 300 years?

 

[Mike Farley]

If I recall correctly Shelby and Riker had to wait a few moments for a turbolift in The Best of Both Worlds. Given a limited amount of cars, there will occasionally be a wait, albeit usually a short one.

 

[sojourner]

That's anybody's guess. Cut'n'paste to see the Ex astris image:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/monitors/monitor-tos-hullpressure-dayofthedove.jpg

Drexler's onscreen diagram for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does show what he intended to be the turbolift tubes of the TOS vessel, but they aren't exactly labeled as such.

(Can't get the caps from TrekCore at this time. But it's a reproduction of this one, from the Captain's Chair CD-ROM.)

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/servalan/110/1701-cutaway.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

Neither of those links work in any way, shape, or form.

 

[GSchnitzer]

That's anybody's guess. Cut'n'paste to see the Ex astris image:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/monitors/monitor-tos-hullpressure-dayofthedove.jpg

Drexler's onscreen diagram for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does show what he intended to be the turbolift tubes of the TOS vessel, but they aren't exactly labeled as such.

(Can't get the caps from TrekCore at this time. But it's a reproduction of this one, from the Captain's Chair CD-ROM.)

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/servalan/110/1701-cutaway.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

Neither of those links work in any way, shape, or form.

On the contrary, there *is* a way in which those two links will work: copy and paste the link into your web browser's URL box directly, instead of trying to click on it is a hypertext link.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Also in ST:TMP the display in the turbo lift clearly shows both vertical and horizontal shafts.

 

[sojourner]

That's anybody's guess. Cut'n'paste to see the Ex astris image:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/monitors/monitor-tos-hullpressure-dayofthedove.jpg

Drexler's onscreen diagram for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does show what he intended to be the turbolift tubes of the TOS vessel, but they aren't exactly labeled as such.

(Can't get the caps from TrekCore at this time. But it's a reproduction of this one, from the Captain's Chair CD-ROM.)

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/servalan/110/1701-cutaway.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

Neither of those links work in any way, shape, or form.

On the contrary, there *is* a way in which those two links will work: copy and paste the link into your web browser's URL box directly, instead of trying to click on it is a hypertext link.

I did, neither one worked. Like I said.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Thanks for the information, guys...even without the links working, that's definitely good to know, and will help with the scene I am writing.

 

[Cicero]

Neither of those links work in any way, shape, or form.

On the contrary, there *is* a way in which those two links will work: copy and paste the link into your web browser's URL box directly, instead of trying to click on it is a hypertext link.

I did, neither one worked. Like I said.

Did you copy the link locations or link text?

 

[sojourner]

I highlighted, copied and pasted the link as shown.

 

[Timo]

Shit. Sorry about the mess. Ex-astris-scientia blocks hotlinking, so cut'n'paste should be the way to go - but TrekBBS in turn abbreviates the link text, so cut'n'pasting this text as the URL apparently doesn't work as it should.

Let's try it this way: the link text is now plain text and doesn't get abbreviated. Except that the only way I can prevent TrekBBS from maiming it is camouflaging it, by changing the www part to vvv. So, change it back.

vvv.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/monitors/monitor-tos-hullpressure-dayofthedove.jpg

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/monitors/monitor-tos-hullpressure-dayofthedove.jpgThe next link shouldn't have such problems, but I'll give it in plaintext anyway:

drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/tos_cutaway_drexler_2.jpg

So... The first one doesn't give any labels or anything that would explicitly look like a turboshaft. The second one doesn't have the labels when it's reproduced on screen in ENT, but the turboshafts can be visually identified. The TMP elevator-interior graphic isn't labeled, either, and we can argue whether it really depicts the lift network or something else. It wouldn't make much sense for it to depict the air conditioning network, though...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Also in ST:TMP the display in the turbo lift clearly shows both vertical and horizontal shafts.

What's never made sense to me about the lift cars is this, they move down - stop - move sideways - stop - move a different sideways - stop - doors open.

Instead, given that they have (presumably) their own gravity system, shouldn't they be like those pneumatic tubes at the bank? No matter where you're going, the car is always traveling "up." The car orients itself prior to the doors opening. Seems that it would be faster.