nuT'Pring didn't die, she was only Stonned.
Spock & Uhura romance
- Thread starter jtkirk
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Lol - aww - as fan films go it was a good effort, not a bad one. I called it quasi-canon only because it featured a lot of the original actors (even Grace!) and because they are 'minor' characters, it's unlikely ever to be contradicted. Besides, most of the movie was set in an alternate universe - who could have a problem with an alternate universe?
Anyway, in canon and fanon, there is enough evidence to show that Uhura fancies a bit of green-blooded, bi-furcated luvvin.
Yep. Attempts to pretend that some consistent military rules about this or a range of other things can be derived from TOS episodes are doomed to fail utterly on the facts.
It wasn't a fan film - the producers still try to raise money from it through email solicitations - and it wasn't very good in most respects.
As far as I'm concerned, iffy money-making aside (and they never saw a penny from me), it was a wonderful nostalgia-fuelled epilogue to TOS. I loved Of Gods and Men.
Never saw any evidence of it. This sounds like the slashers who find evidence of K/S and S/M everywhere. Kind of contradictory to each other aren't they. If you look hard enough, take things out of context, forget oodles and oodles of contradictory evidence, use a VERY vivid imagination, and use a few hallucinogens -- you just might see a festering romance.
What I fail to understand is why anyone would want to twist things around in TOS so ridiculously so as to try to justify a romantic relationship between Spock and Uhura? It assassinates the character of TOS Spock, and turns one of the most complex, mysterious, unusual, thought provoking and psychologically intriguing characters in fiction into the stereotyped fodder of romantic fiction. Aren't there enough Heathcliffs, Mr Darcys, Mr Rochesters, Edward Cullens or all the other typical dime-store Harlequin romance heroes out there? They all are similar to each other -hard, cold, aloof exterior hiding a warm passionate interior. And that one special girl - he can't resist, who can reach deep inside to draw out his passion. Yawn. Now they have to turn Spock into that? How unimaginative and boring.
Was the elevator scene hot? Only in a sensual way. Those characters could have been any two.. Uhura and McCoy, Kirk and Gaila, Spock and T'Pau.. it didn't matter. Put any attractive, dazed male and attractive, sympathetic female in a kissing scene and it looks hot. Was it interesting, or unique? Nope. What do they see in each other, what do they have in common, why Spock, why Uhura? We know nothing to make this couple unique or different or interesting. Flat interchangeable characters whose romance touches the senses - not the mind.
I disagree with the idea that TOS didn't do romance well. Some of it's romances are the finest in fiction (City, both Paradises, Yesterdays etc). The TOS romances, when done right, were good because we knew the psychological vulnerabilities of the characters, and why they loved who they did. They touched us on the intellectual, emotional and psychological level. I know what Kirk saw in Keeler. I know what Spock saw in Zarabeth. I know Kirk is tempted at times to ditch the service and live the simple life ...Miramonee. Spock could be tempted to forget his chosen tough, lonely lifestyle (self-made purgatory), give up that Vulcan way and open up to a woman ...Romulan Commander. There was depth and complexity to these romances that was lacking in Spock/Uhura.
Some say they are bored with the emotionally repressed Spock. I am unsure how this can be. There are 430 emotional humans on the ship, many emotional humanoids that they encounter - and only one Vulcan hybrid and one unemotional species, Vulcans. Interactions between Spock/Vulcans and humans were different that all those emotional interactions between characters. Now none of them are unique or different. What was thought provoking is now a soap opera in outer space. How different than everything else out there
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Kirk SPECIFICALLY notes that he's going to have to lose one of them.
"I like to think I'm not so much losing an officer as gaining...
come to think of it, I'm losing an officer."
Oh for fuck's sake!! Is that episode really so goddamned hard to understand?? Why do people keep getting this wrong?
Nothing happened between Kirk and Noel. Nothing. Ever.
Something tells me you've never actually read Wuthering Heights.
I don't see how Spock and Uhura have turned Trek into a soap opera in space. They don't do anything in the movie but get the message across that they were in a relationship. Spock has a supportive girlfriend. It wasn't a major plot point - and to be honest, relationships between people of their age don't have to be deep and complicated at all. IRL they often aren't.
Read and studied it in a formal environment - "A survey of Major British Writers".
All these characters fall inot the category of "Byronic hero" which is what they've done to Spock in nuTrek. TOS managed to evade this by clever writing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byronic_hero
Tomlinson was going to get married. Kirk allowed two involved crew members to work together in phaser control during a crisis situation. If he had any problem with couples on his ship, he would have changed their assignments then.
What about Kirk, the Federation's representative to the cosmos, letching over every alien female he comes across? That's potentially far more troublesome than trained professionals, who know what they're getting into and what the risks are, getting together.
Except that the hallmark of Spock's character is emotional repression and denial. Spock simply doesn't show emotions and romantic relationships do.
Read and studied? And you still call it a "dime-store typical Harlequin romance" and Heathcliff a "typical dime-store Harlequin romance hero"? That's even worse. It sounds more like the description of the whitewashed Heathcliff from the Hollywood versions of the novel. The original Heathcliff was a man with a cruel, hard exterior which hid... a passionate and even crueler, more brutal interior. Your description actually fits the romantic idea that Isabella Linton had about Heathcliff before she married him, which was ridiculed by Catherine in the novel itself.
The link to the wiki article about Byronic hero fails to impress me, since I've read much better articles for my English literature studies at the university. Of course they fit the 'Byronic hero', the Brontes were heavily influenced by Romanticism. But to equate the Byronic hero with Harlequin romance is, IMO, silly.
Incidentally, the topic about sexism reminds me of the history of critical response to Wuthering Heights in the 19th century. Right after the novel was first published under the male alias "Ellis Bell", the largely negative reviews focused on the novel's brutality, and regarded it as a story of hatred and revenge. One critic even wrote that the author must be a rough sailor and that the novel is not suitable for gentle ladies to read. By comparison, after it was published later under the name "Emily Bronte", the reviews all focused on the love story and regarded it as a romance. Interesting, eh?
Except all those times when he did... i.e. every time the writers came up with some far-fetched circumstances to make him lose control, plus a bunch of times in other episodes where he's showing emotions through his facial expressions (like the trademark raised eyebrow), subtle body language and not to subtle jibes aimed at McCoy, Kirk or someone else. Spock's attempts to pretend that he had no emotions despite the evidence to the contrary was often a source of comedy - look at "The Trouble with Tribbles", or any conversation where McCoy and Kirk mock his pretense of not having emotions.
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In spite of all the irrelevancies, these characters are typical Byronic heroes seen time and time again throughout literature - both good and bad literature. And now Spock fits there too. Exit Sci-Fi enter Romantic Fiction.
Have you ever actually watched the series?
There's a few scenes in TOS that suggested an S/U connection. It's understated, but it's there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK3Fc14xOu8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK3Fc14xOu8
Fairly typical of the hero in much historical romantic literature.
Spock simply shows emotions frequently, and has since the beginning. That he is in denial about it is an integral part of his character.
I think we're just supposed to forget this happened and stop bringing it up, because it's an explicit and significant event in TOS that's fouling up the argument against Spock/Uhura rather badly.
That's nice - you never saw projects you supported threatened as a result of this clumsy scheme.
Reminds me of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1VaWIbyqmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNZt-9Afdi4
Why do many want to revise romance into TOS so much? Wasn't it better that there were no romantic sagas occurring, no sexual tension on the bridge, but just some wonderful friendships and devotion to duty and ideals. I am at a loss as to why so many want this kind of thing in Trek. Relationships were not the focus of TOS, ideas were.
As the OP says: " Maybe the next time they do a remaster on TOS they can insert a few Spock/Uhura CGI kissing scenes for continuity reasons. "
I want to know where it would be appropriate? Right after Uhura says [of T'Pring] "She's lovely - who is she?" Maybe Spock should go over to Uhura and kiss her, and then say "T'Pring, my wife"? Perhaps during some of those scenes depicted in your youtube video? Kill me now!!
Wistful, most likely. I'm in the camp that says that the spark was there, even in the oldverse, where the age difference was apparently greater and it's unlikely they would have been in the Academy at the same time.
Somebody wrote a story where Uhura marries Stonn? Oh good gort.I personally don't think so, although I think Uhura's into Vulcans - her marraige in Of Gods and Men (which may not be canon, but to quote Nero, "I saw it happen! I watched it happen! Don't tell me it didn't happen!") to Stonn (of all people! And T'Pring did the ceremony
Well that proves it. If she's hot enuf for Vulcan guys that she'll lower her standards that far, she'll definitely go after Spock like a tribble after quadrum triticale when she enrolls in his Xenolinguistics 101 course...It's a soap opera if the romance simply exists for its own sake, to cause complications for the characters. It's not a soap opera if it has some larger purpose in the character arcs or plotline.
My hunch is that the writers gave Spock an ongoing serious romance for the same reason they blew up Vulcan: to put Spock through an emotional mill to a greater extent than in the oldverse, because having him go into a tailspin is part of the character arc they have planned for him, in contrast to Kirk's arc of greater responsibility and stability.
The bigger plan is to contrast the two arcs against each other, without which, Kirk's arc might be a bit of a downer - who wants to see the fun wildchild growing up into dull adult responsibility? But if it's Kirk gaining responsibility in order to help out his friend who's headed in the opposite direction, then the story isn't about adult responsibility, but about the dedication between two friends, which is not only more relatable and fun, but is also what we expect Star Trek to be about.
Or maybe they have some other plan. As long as there is a plan, it's not soap opera. And it can't be Wuthering Heights if it's really all about Kirk and Spock. We might not have enough info yet to really know what the story is - we've only seen the first third of what is going to be at least a three-movie series.
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