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Songs - I Don't Get It

Captain_Nick

Vice Admiral
Admiral
I don't understand 'pop culture' music. Not talking about the real stuff, like opera, symphonies, concertos et al but rather the generic, everywhere type stuff like 'rock', 'pop' and all that other rubbish that is played on the radio stations.

Let me give you an example of what I mean. Almost everyone I speak to is into this sort of pop music in some way. You could have a top chef who likes Queen or a professor who is into Metallica. You could even have an opera singer who is into Lady Gaga, for example. I read in a newspaper article that Diana Doherty, one of Australias leading oboists, liked to rock out to Guns n Roses or some other band in her spare time.

To me this makes no sense whatsoever. It is like being a top chef and feeding yourself McDonalds.

Now I understand that Diana might have been pandering to the Australian culture of mediocrity - it was an article in the Daily Telegraph after all - but it illustrates my point. She has heard of Guns n Roses. Everyone has. And this is the fundamental point I don't understand. Guns n Roses sound like Queen sound like Metallica sound like whatever bands you listen to. How on earth can you possibly tell them apart??

I used to work in a pizza shop for a few years. Everyone who worked there, except for me, was a music nerd. They knew all the bands and would spend all their time talking about riffs and drummers and which musician was taking drugs (they all were it seems). Now I was working there for three years and all they ever did was talk about music. It was extraordinary! How much they liked a particular band, how 'awesome' a drum solo was etc etc. And the astonishing part is that the music all sounds exactly the same!!! How can you sustain a conversation for three years discussing the relative merits of McDonalds and KFC???

(should I be asking this to a group of people who debate whether Kirk is superior to Picard?)

Anyway I just noticed the thread here 'songs that remind you of people' and it triggered this thread. I think I am missing part of the human experience. I am sure most of you have a band or some pop culture thing you are 'in to'. Perhaps you can explain to me why you allow it to occupy your minds? What am I missing here?

If you're going to be sarcastic, bugger off.
http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/4965451-opera-mp3-collection
 
It's the same, the same!! The lyrics are interchangeable, the instrumentation is similar, stylistically the differences are very minor!!

Ok the Whopper has a tomato in it and the Big Mac doesn't! Why split such hairs?

Lets talk about the lyrics shall we?! The 'girl bands' sing about

- how much they are in love
- how they are glad they have broken up
- how they dont need a man to be happy
- how they wish their fellow would love them back

Man bands sing about

- how in love they are
- how awesome sex is
- how mean the world is
- how pointless existance is

Why would you fill your heads with such nonsense?
 
Why do I like so-called "popular" music (a disingenuous phrase, since a lot of what I like is nowhere near popular, yet fits with your description)? Simply put, because it's catchy, or because I find it particularly moving.

And personally, I don't know how you can say it all sounds the same... I have a healthy appreciation for classical music (I love Bach, Beethoven, Holst, and others, as well as many film scores), and I think I have a reasonably well-developed taste in music, so forgive me when I say that I think that's just wrong. For instance, how can you take something that's nearly unarguably terrible, let's say... "Tik Tok" (*shudder*)...

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP6XpLQM2Cs[/yt]

... and compare it on the same level with something that's quite brilliant. Let's say The Arcade Fire's "Intervention," as it's a relative contemporary:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKum5Jlp9eM[/yt]

I personally don't think it takes any sort of musical education to be able to tell that one of those songs is clearly far more innovative, well-written, and musically sound than the other.

So in short, I do think that a lot of popular music is, quite frankly, terrible. Lowest common denominator, Sturgeon's Law, all that sort of thing. But I think to lump it all together as universally bad is just terribly, terribly unfair, and does a great disservice to some incredibly brilliant musicians and songwriters from the past six decades.
 
Man bands sing about

- how in love they are
- how awesome sex is
- how mean the world is
- how pointless existance is

Why would you fill your heads with such nonsense?

Hokay... I don't like to double-post, but this deserves a post of its own. In addition to that song by Arcade Fire that doesn't fit any of those categories, howabout a few more across various genres?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--IqqusnNQ[/yt]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krnagKfgEfo[/yt]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzo6Otpgj-E[/yt]

If you can seriously lump all three of those songs together, say they sound the same and are about the same thing, then chances are you're being deliberately obstinate.
 
You really do seem like you are missing out. I wish you could enjoy some "regular" music like most others are able to.

I am not a "music nerd" and I don't talk about it all that often, but I do enjoy listing to different types of music when I'm in different moods. You saying that all of those bands sound the same is like someone else saying that all classical music sounds the same. If you don't take any time to actually listen to it and discover the differences then you are missing out. Although it might take most people some training to be able to appreciate something like classical music, the appreciation of "regular" music usually comes naturally. This does not appear to be so for you, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to appreciate it if you want to.

You just have to find a genre that you like. I have eclectic tastes in music, I pick and choose songs from a variety of genres. Sometimes you just hear a song that really speaks to you, either in the lyrics or the melody or whatever. It just sounds really beautiful, or it enhances your mood, or it makes you think, or it touches you in ways that you could not imagine. Music can be very moving, whether it be highly artistic and cultured or a new pop song on the radio. There are positives to both...
 
Well obstinancy would be pointless. I put up this thread to learn, not have a go.

I don't agree with you on the Arcade Fire song, I looked up the lyrics as I was listening and it seemed to me that the fellow was just having a whinge.
 
Well obstinancy would be pointless. I put up this thread to learn, not have a go.

I don't agree with you on the Arcade Fire song, I looked up the lyrics as I was listening and it seemed to me that the fellow was just having a whinge.

It's not necessarily whether or not you like it, though, in the context I posted it originally—it's how it compares to "Tik Tok." I simply don't see how you could put all popular music on the same level based solely on those two examples.
 
Lets talk about the lyrics shall we?! The 'girl bands' sing about

- how much they are in love
- how they are glad they have broken up
- how they dont need a man to be happy
- how they wish their fellow would love them back

Man bands sing about

- how in love they are
- how awesome sex is
- how mean the world is
- how pointless existance is

Why would you fill your heads with such nonsense?
So you have a problem with modern musicians using universal themes?
 
You saying that all of those bands sound the same is like someone else saying that all classical music sounds the same.

I understand that. It's just ignorance - lack of knowledge - of the genre.

I'm not an elitist or a snob, I'm just starting from a position far removed from a lot of people.

but that doesn't mean you can't learn to appreciate it if you want to.

Exactly right! I wouldn't be writing this if I didnt have an interest.

You just have to find a genre that you like. I have eclectic tastes in music, I pick and choose songs from a variety of genres. Sometimes you just hear a song that really speaks to you, either in the lyrics or the melody or whatever. It just sounds really beautiful, or it enhances your mood, or it makes you think, or it touches you in ways that you could not imagine. Music can be very moving, whether it be highly artistic and cultured or a new pop song on the radio. There are positives to both...

What would be a decent place to start?
 
So you have a problem with modern musicians using universal themes?

There's only so much that can be said on the subjects .. and they are pretty poor subjects to begin with. All 'me' subjects. How in love 'I' am, how mean the world is 'to me', whatever. Please tell me there is music out there that can transcend the ego.
 
I don't understand 'pop culture' music. Not talking about the real stuff, like opera, symphonies, concertos et al but rather the generic, everywhere type stuff like 'rock', 'pop' and all that other rubbish that is played on the radio stations.


I'm a big fan of jazz from the 50s and 60s, (Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Dave Brubeck, etc). My wife thinks that all sounds the same, while I can easily tell the difference between the different artists.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't care for much of the 'classical' music, and I tend to think that a lot of that sounds the same while others can tell it all apart.

Perhaps pop music just isn't your thing dude, but I do agree that Styx, Journey, Foreigner, Boston, etc... They're all pretty much the same, but I still enjoy them.
 
So you have a problem with modern musicians using universal themes?

There's only so much that can be said on the subjects .. and they are pretty poor subjects to begin with. All 'me' subjects. How in love 'I' am, how mean the world is 'to me', whatever. Please tell me there is music out there that can transcend the ego.
Ok, so that rules out anything where people sing. :vulcan:
 
Not so! That Gordon Lightfoot railroad song above was quite nice.

Perhaps you should consider checking out some other folk artists, then? Though you will find that many of them sing love songs and the like as well; as others have noted, it's a very universal theme. After all, why else would Shakespeare have written so many romantic comedies?

Also, looking at my first few posts, apologies if I came across as a little too confrontational. I think I perhaps took your "all music sounds the same" comments a little too close to the heart, and I didn't mean to attack you. It's just that I found it a tad insulting to so handily dismiss something I am quite appreciative of, and I responded as you'd expect in such circumstances.
 
Why would you fill your heads with such nonsense?

(should I be asking this to a group of people who debate whether Kirk is superior to Picard?)

Anyway I just noticed the thread here 'songs that remind you of people' and it triggered this thread. I think I am missing part of the human experience. I am sure most of you have a band or some pop culture thing you are 'in to'. Perhaps you can explain to me why you allow it to occupy your minds? What am I missing here?

If you're going to be sarcastic, bugger off.
If you were looking for non-sarcastic comments you started this thread off in entirely the wrong way. Furthermore, you don't get to come in here with an attitude then demand that people not respond the same way.

It seems inevitable that many of the respondents are going to insult your rather ignorant impression of music, and I can't say I blame them. That being said, people need to avoid making personal insults against you and you need to dial down your own attitude as well.
 
What would be a decent place to start?

That's a tough question. It seems like the formative years for developing your musical likes and dislikes are somewhere around middle school for most people. I mean, every now and then I hear a new song that I really love and I add it to my playlist. But more often I find myself going back to the music I listened to when I was a teenager. The late 90s was probably my favorite time for music.


You've also got to figure out why you are listening to the music. I have discovered that the music I really love is the stuff I can sing along to, preferrably at the top of my lungs while I'm alone in the car. :) I still enjoy other types of songs for different reasons but I just really love an artist with a superb singing voice, that I can try to mimic (I inevitably fail!). I also like bands that have some funny lyrics (and funny music videos to go along with them), like the Foo Fighters. Another reason I listen is when I'm feeling very melancholy - misery loves company as you know, so I will purposely choose the really slow, depressing songs. And somehow I come out of it feeling better. :lol:

I took a class in college on the history of American music and it really improved my appreciation for all types, from opera to metal. Understanding the roots of a genre and the key instruments and vocal stylings that identify it makes listening all that more rewarding.
 
I used to work in a music store with a couple of guys that graduated U of L school of music and were quite knowledgeable about classical music. One even formed a very well reviewed classical-ish group called Rachels.
I didn't know beans about that genre.
However we were all pretty big fans of AC/DC, Gary Numan, Black Sabbath, etc...
Sometimes you just have to have it turned up and driving thtough the park on a summer day to appreciate some of it.
If you want to try something different, may I suggest any pre-89 REM, Dead Can Dance, or some Midnight Oil. There's some variety for ya!
 
I don't even know where to begin, man. You've basically indicted 40 years' worth of music as "all sounding exactly the same." As one of those "music nerds" you (somewhat derisively) referred to, I don't think I'm even capable of discussing something like this with you.

Kudos to you for wanting to learn more, I guess, but I don't hold out hope that you're going to be able to understand this.

EDIT: I should clarify why I feel this way.

If you legitimately think that everything you've heard sounds the same then it's because you may have heard it but you sure didn't listen to it. My advice to you would be to go pick up some albums and listen to them; if you're sincere in your desire to learn more then that's the best way to do it. The only excuse for not being able to tell the difference between Queen and a Boy Band is that you're just willfully deaf to it.

It's be like trying to discuss the difference between red and blue with someone who's been blind from birth.
 
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