5x013 The Big Bang (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[Plan 9]

No, you're just making the same mistake again. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. It's how you learn.

Just because we rarely get to see the original course of events that lead to a paradox and/or time loop, that doesn't mean they don't occur.

No, you're just not listening. S'okay, I'm patient, feel free to start any time!

As I already said, the entire point of an ontological paradox is that the information does not "come" from anywhere because there is no "original" version. You're free to go and look it up at your leisure. As I also already said Blink is the same way and neither Blink nor The Big Bang can possibly make sense unless you accept that this is what they're using as a storytelling device. No one had a problem with Blink. Some people for reasons unknown to me all of a sudden have a problem with it now. The show isn't being inconsistent, but some of the people watching it sure are.

No, YOU can't make any sense of it. I have no trouble coming up with various different ways they could have come about, and have mentioned a few already. But I guess it's easier to be one of those aforementioned whiners who prefer to be sour for the sake of being sour.

What a wonderful life that must be.

 

[Arrqh]

And after you're done trying to prove that, I'd appreciate it if you could take the time to explain why you're so adamant about it being spontaneous instead of being created? Especially since it being created is, you know, sensible?

It was created. It created itself. That's the entire point of an ontological paradox. It'll take you something like two seconds to google it.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to see the evidence that was clearly presented in the episode and to see how it is clearly consistent with Moffat's other Who work. I guess if you want to live in a fantasy land where you get to dole out insults, go for it, but I'm too busy reflecting on how much I enjoyed this episode to bother with your crankiness any longer.

So enjoy your fanfic! If you like it better then the actual episode, more power to you.

 

[JoeZhang]

No, you're just making the same mistake again. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. It's how you learn.

Just because we rarely get to see the original course of events that lead to a paradox and/or time loop, that doesn't mean they don't occur.

No, you're just not listening. S'okay, I'm patient, feel free to start any time!

As I already said, the entire point of an ontological paradox is that the information does not "come" from anywhere because there is no "original" version. You're free to go and look it up at your leisure. As I also already said Blink is the same way and neither Blink nor The Big Bang can possibly make sense unless you accept that this is what they're using as a storytelling device. No one had a problem with Blink. Some people for reasons unknown to me all of a sudden have a problem with it now. The show isn't being inconsistent, but some of the people watching it sure are.

No, YOU can't make any sense of it. I have no trouble coming up with various different ways they could have come about, and have mentioned a few already. But I guess it's easier to be one of those aforementioned whiners who prefer to be sour for the sake of being sour.

What a wonderful life that must be.

I am afraid you are have complete misssed the point about the nature of an ontological paradox. I, like the other poster, suggest you do a bit of a reading and also that you try and act a little more humble when handing out insults about something you clearly don't understand.

 

[captcalhoun]

What's with all the prickliness lately?

i've been sick of all the fan-boy bitching and whinging for a long time, now i'm just expressing it because i'm SO sick of it.

 

[Cyke101]

No, you're just not listening. S'okay, I'm patient, feel free to start any time!

As I already said, the entire point of an ontological paradox is that the information does not "come" from anywhere because there is no "original" version. You're free to go and look it up at your leisure. As I also already said Blink is the same way and neither Blink nor The Big Bang can possibly make sense unless you accept that this is what they're using as a storytelling device. No one had a problem with Blink. Some people for reasons unknown to me all of a sudden have a problem with it now. The show isn't being inconsistent, but some of the people watching it sure are.

No, YOU can't make any sense of it. I have no trouble coming up with various different ways they could have come about, and have mentioned a few already. But I guess it's easier to be one of those aforementioned whiners who prefer to be sour for the sake of being sour.

What a wonderful life that must be.

I am afraid you are have complete misssed the point about the nature of an ontological paradox. I, like the other poster, suggest you do a bit of a reading and also that you try and act a little more humble when handing out insults about something you clearly don't understand.

How about I save everyone some trouble and just post up a link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_paradox

 

[Sparky]

No, you're just making the same mistake again. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. It's how you learn.

Physician heal thyself.

Two words: Prove it.

The proof is in the episode. You can make up all the "stories" you want, but it does not change what was shown onscreen.

 

[Captain Pike]

In "Doomsday," of course, we ended the episode saying goodbye to Rose Tyler. "I love you..."

I know! She was so gross and she had cooties and everything.

'Cos, you know, the only possible objection anyone could ever have to that hackneyed cliché of a romance is a pre-pubescent aversion to the opposite sex

 

[Starkers]

What's with all the prickliness lately?

i've been sick of all the fan-boy bitching and whinging for a long time, now i'm just expressing it because i'm SO sick of it.

Yeah I know the feeling. I don't think we should stop moaning about things we don't like, but things get whinged about in such minutae now.

Love the av by the way

 

[Lonemagpie]

I still want to know how "thought" or "memories" could have brought the Doctor into existence

Perceptual nature of the universe. Observer effect. Cos Moff says it just does, OK. Take your pick...

 

[Australis]

And for those with problems or even interest in paradoxes, try some for real:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrocausality

 

[Pauln6]

Fantastic episode - nthing like what I was expecting. And kudos to those who spotted the faux continuity error with the jacket in the angels' story. At least now the dialogue makes sense.

 

[wamdue]

Dont know if this has been mentioned here or not, but it seems Moffatt had a hint about the finale placed in one of the books.

The Forgotten Army Page 47 -48

Spoiler: Just in case

First of all ill start off by saying that the Doctor & Amy are on top of a Mammoth, in a NY museum.

where the mammoth hurtled into a display of penguins, toppling them like dominoes.

Amy blinker, her mind distracted, confused by something. "Are there any Nile Penguins here?"

The Doctor stared at her like she was mad. "They don't exist, Amy. Thats a myth, What made you think of them?"

Amy wasn't sure. For a brief moment, it had felt like a long forgotten memory had burst urgently back into her life, but it had departed just as quickly, and she had no idea, why shed thought it was important. "I just had such a weird feeling of deja vu" she said.

"Thats just echoes of memories", the Doctor told her cheerily. "Reverberating down your timetable, nothing to worry about. Unless its Deja vu of you wetting yourself, You havent have you?"

also it occurs to me that the Doctor bough back the universe in much the same way

Spoiler: spoilers for Apollo 23

he gave people there minds back on Moon Base Diana

(Apollo 23)

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well. I finally saw the episode. I'll have to say one thing: It certainly was not what I expected.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the method of The Doctor's escape from the Pandorica was via a time paradox with The Doctor doing what he was told by other people after it all happened. I mean, this was written by the same guy who wrote "Blink" where exactly the same thing happened. Of course, the entirity of time, space, and everything was dependent on this scenario. Ah, well, who am I to complain about such trival points?

I think what I loved the most about this episode was how this episode received the epic first first part and just kind of gently stepped backwards and dealt with the situation. Did it involve a giant reset button like Davies has done all of these years? Yes. Will people (myself included) be more forgiving of Moffat than Davies, which may or may not be entirely unfair to Davies? Yeah, probably. (Although I don't have any problems with "Journey's End" other than the metacrisis, but that's whole another can of worms) I can't quite put my finger on why I'm more willing to take this all in without any complaints. Maybe I can because the episode presents the situation in nonchalant means. Maybe I can because episode realizes how ridiculous it is, doesn't try to hide from that point, and simply embraces it. Or maybe I'm just full of shit. Who knows?

What I do know is that I absolutely loved the final five minutes of the episode. Between River Song flat out telling us that we're going to learn a lot more about her next season (to the point she might be a companion, but certainly at least in a reoccuring capacity like this season) to Amy AND Rory (I LOVE Rory) running off with The Doctor to the episode decidingly not telling us what caused the time cracks and leaving it for next season (instead of trying to cram it all into this episode and making the resolution feel flat) to the episode ending with a loose cliffhanger leading into the Christmas special.

So, um. Is it Christmas yet?

 

[Cutter John]

What's with all the prickliness lately?

i've been sick of all the fan-boy bitching and whinging for a long time, now i'm just expressing it because i'm SO sick of it.

Yeah I know the feeling. I don't think we should stop moaning about things we don't like, but things get whinged about in such minutae now.

Love the av by the way

No kidding. Its starting to sound like GB around here.

I swear, theres at least one thread full of 'I won't be watching next year.' posts over there. And I find myself sitting on my hands to keep from typing a 'Good fucking riddence then' reply. See? That places just gets to you after awhile.

 

[USS KG5]

it was brilliant and i reiterate, some of you are such miserable bastards.

i loved every single second. roll on christmas.

This. Really, this.

I'll post more later but for now

THIS.

This, again.

All this whinging and moping we might as well be talking about the England football team...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I have a suspicion there isn't a Xmas special this year.

There is.

Spoiler: Possible Spoiler for Christmas

The rumour is it has the Yeti in it.

That would be wonderful if true!

The best part was definitely the Fez and River making the Dalek beg.

I forgot about the fez! I loved the fez! I was so happy to see The Doctor wear not one, but two hats in this episode. There needs to be more of that.

Just a few points of (my) interest

-- Yet another call back to the 1st doctor in this episode (mentioning the theft of the TARDIS). There's got to be something behind that, seems like 1's got a lot of love this year.

I loved that little moment. I can only hope there will be more of that for each of incarnation of The Doctor in the future (like The Fifth Doctor did in series 3).

Wait...what about the Duck Pond?

Sometimes a duckless duck pond is a duckless duck pond.

Did River remember the Doctor because she was a more complicated spacetime event than Amy? Or was it because the Doctor didn't have anything to do with River's childhood?

There's something...unusual about River. Wouldn't be surprised if she was revealed to be a Time Lady

I've been thinking that too. Maybe Romana?

As much as I love Romana (she is my favorite companion afte all), I really hope that's not the case here. Hell, I don't even want River Song to turn out to be a Time Lady. There's certainly more to her than meets the eye but I hope Moffat will be a little more original than saying she's a Time Lady.

Of course, that being said, I do want to see Romana to show up again at some point.

i've been sick of all the fan-boy bitching and whinging for a long time, now i'm just expressing it because i'm SO sick of it.

Yeah I know the feeling. I don't think we should stop moaning about things we don't like, but things get whinged about in such minutae now.

Love the av by the way

No kidding. Its starting to sound like GB around here.

I swear, theres at least one thread full of 'I won't be watching next year.' posts over there. And I find myself sitting on my hands to keep from typing a 'Good fucking riddence then' reply. See? That places just gets to you after awhile.

I'm also surprised about how this forum has gotten a bit like Gallifrey Base, but I keep doing what I always do when shit like this happens: I skip over them and move onto the interesting posts.

 

[Jax]

Some people talking about a reset button not really since reset buttons normally mean wiping the actual story and everything that happened did happen. People being sucked into the cracks came back but the past episodes all occured though as Amy, Doctor and Rory remembered them. The Universe was blown up of course it needed some sort of reset button but it was so lite it really shouls be called something else.

 

[Pindar]

Another enjoyable episode, I rated it a good but would score it 8/10.

Matt Smith is a brilliant Doctor and Karen is great as Amy, I think would rate the whole series around 8/10 as well.

Why all the talk of resets, there was no reset. The only thing that got undone was the TARDIS blowing up.

Roll on the Christmas special.

 

[Plan 9]

I am afraid you are have complete misssed the point about the nature of an ontological paradox. I, like the other poster, suggest you do a bit of a reading and also that you try and act a little more humble when handing out insults about something you clearly don't understand.

No, I understand what that is.

What you people refuse to even consider is that it's not an ontological paradox. You're pulling that squarely from your nether regions.

There's multiple ways the events could have started, but all we, the audience, saw was the loop after it was created.

And again, I really don't get the thick-headedness you people are showing by refusing to accept a plausible explanation rather than stomping feet and complaining about how illogical the events were.

But fine. Feel free to hate for the sake of hating. It makes you people the ignorant, closed-minded ones, not me. No matter how much you want to try and imply otherwise.

 

[Sparky]

It was actually the complete opposite of a reset button. Things that had happened but were wiped out are now back to normal. People remembered instead of forgetting. It was the Anti-Reset.