What's the deal with the "French surrendering" jokes?

[MetalPants]

how about, if someone made jokes about blacks and slavery?

You say that as if it doesn't happen.

 

[AJBryant]

The "French surrending" stuff reminds me of this:

The USA won the World War II! Without us, the Europeans would be now speaking German and Japanese!

I read similar comment on a BBC message board yesterday
The real turning point in WWII was the Battle of Stalingrad, where the Germans where defeated..and they spent basicly the rest of the time running from the Soviets..all the way to Berlin.
But I guess they dont teach that either in the American schools..maybe its because of the Cold War additudes

Yeah, and Stalin wouldn't have been able to keep going without incredible amounts of loaned materiel from the US.

 

[Goliath]

I didn't realize the French surrendered their sense of humour as well.

I'm a woman, I don't have a sense of humor, I can't surrender something I don't have

Interestingly, according to the website Badass of the Week, French women are particularly noted for their badassitude.

Most of the Badasses of the Week from France have been women, including Joan of Arc, Jeanne Hachette, Isabella of France, and Marie Curie, who was born in Poland, but subsequently became a French citizen.

If anyone's not familiar with Badass of the Week, the entry on Marie Curie provides a good example of its style:

The most famous female physicist in history was an insane supergenius who made this brain-immolating discipline her prison bitch, discovered the secrets behind technologies that lead to discoveries such as chemotherapy and nuclear warfare, and generally just went out at a time when most women were expected to be little more than childbearing snuggle factories and flipping blew the minds of the entire intellectual community like an unstoppable mushroom cloud of face-melting science.

EDIT: Fixed the link for Jeanne Hachette.

 

[Noname Given]

It's a culturally inspired joke.

People joke about Americans being fat, loudmouthed, belligerant arseholes.
People joke about the English being repressed, with bad teeth, and even worse cooking.
People joke about the Scots being alcoholic, heroin addicts who deep fry every meal they eat.
People joke about Australians all being convicts.
People joke about....

Seeing a pattern here?

It's a bit of light-hearted ribbing. Countries all over the world share this kind of banter, especially when they have a close shared history, like England and France do, so get over it. It's only serious when PC arseholes make it serious.

QFT - (and yes, I'm one of the Ugly Americans )

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Interestingly, according to the website Badass of the Week, French women are particularly noted for their badassitude.

Most of the Badasses of the Week from France have been women, including Joan of Arc, Jeanne Hachette, Isabella of France, and Marie Curie, who was born in Poland, but subsequently became a French citizen.

If anyone's not familiar with Badass of the Week, the entry on Marie Curie provides a good example of its style:

In France, the women are men.

In Italy, it's hard to tell the difference between men and women, but usually the women have thicker mustaches.

In Scotland, the men are men and the sheep are nervous.

In Greece, the men never leave their buddy's behind.

 

[Goliath]

In France, the women are men.

In Italy, it's hard to tell the difference between men and women, but usually the women have thicker mustaches.

In Scotland, the men are men and the sheep are nervous.

In Greece, the men never leave their buddy's behind.

See--I don't find any of that offensive. Just terribly stale, and painfully unfunny.

Hasn't anyone got any fresh, new ethnic stereotypes?

 

[Servo]

Ethnic stereotypes are all dumb...

Yes, they are, but what I'm talking about is an international version of ribbing your mates in jest. It's lighthearted, and the other party usually has a few digs back, but it's all in good fun. Sure, a minority take it further than that and spoil it for everyone by turning it into a way to demean and spread hate, but you get that with pretty much anything these days.

Do you think that, when Matt Groening had Groundskeeper Willy refer to the French as "cheese-eating surrender monkeys", he was doing it in a lighthearted way for a laugh, or was trying to reinforce stereotypes and spread hate about the French?

if you want to find an equivalent, it would be more like... how about, if someone made jokes about blacks and slavery?

People do. A lot of them, when done correctly, are fucking hilarious. Practically every cutting edge black comedian has been making a living from that for years.

I guess you'd also say that this was only serious if PC arseholes made it so...

Not just PC arseholes. As I said, racists and hatemongers fuck it up for the rest of us, too. But, yeah, PC arseholes are a big fuckin problem with the world right now, and are (IMO) a major contributing factor to rising social tensions. Not just in the UK, but everywhere.

 

[clint g]

Wow, people are taking this joke way to seriously

 

[Servo]

^ Tell me about it.

 

[clint g]

if you want to find an equivalent, it would be more like... how about, if someone made jokes about blacks and slavery?

People do. A lot of them, when done correctly, are fucking hilarious. Practically every cutting edge black comedian has been making a living from that for years.

Very true. I have a friend who lives on a former plantation in Maryland. She is white and has the same last name as myself. My family are descendent's of slaves. The natural result is that we crack slavery/slave master jokes on each other. There is no hate involved, just good natured ribbing.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Ultimate Cap, in The Ultimates #12 (or was it #13?) whilst fighting Herr Kleiser, leader of the Chitauri invasion.

Ah, the Ultimate line. I should have guessed.

 

[iguana_tonante]

if you want to find an equivalent, it would be more like... how about, if someone made jokes about blacks and slavery?

People do. A lot of them, when done correctly, are fucking hilarious. Practically every cutting edge black comedian has been making a living from that for years.

To follow your analogy, it should be left to the French to do irony about themselves (as they, a lot). How many white comedians crack jokes about slavery all the time?

Very true. I have a friend who lives on a former plantation in Maryland. She is white and has the same last name as myself. My family are descendent's of slaves. The natural result is that we crack slavery/slave master jokes on each other. There is no hate involved, just good natured ribbing.

Look for the operational word here, "friends". I make horrendously insulting jokes with my friends all the time: it doesn't mean I do that with strangers and casual acquaintances, too, and get all fussy when they punch me in the face.

 

[clint g]

if you want to find an equivalent, it would be more like... how about, if someone made jokes about blacks and slavery?

People do. A lot of them, when done correctly, are fucking hilarious. Practically every cutting edge black comedian has been making a living from that for years.

To follow your analogy, it should be left to the French to do irony about themselves (as they, a lot). How many white comedians crack jokes about slavery all the time?

Very true. I have a friend who lives on a former plantation in Maryland. She is white and has the same last name as myself. My family are descendent's of slaves. The natural result is that we crack slavery/slave master jokes on each other. There is no hate involved, just good natured ribbing.

Look for the operational word here, "friends". I make horrendously insulting jokes with my friends all the time: it doesn't mean I do that with strangers and casual acquaintances, too, and get all fussy when they punch me in the face.

I always considered France a friend

 

[Servo]

To follow your analogy, it should be left to the French to do irony about themselves (as they, a lot). How many white comedians crack jokes about slavery all the time?

Which is exactly my point. The world is in a place now where everyone is afraid of their own shadow, and as such have created acceptable double standards for an easy life. If something is funny, it shouldn't change its connotation just because someone else is saying it. Again, the racists and hatemongers fuck it up for everyone else, and the PC brigade unwittingly back them up by forcing their version of acceptability on everyone else.

Look for the operational word here, "friends". I make horrendously insulting jokes with my friends all the time: it doesn't mean I do that with strangers and casual acquaintances, too, and get all fussy when they punch me in the face.

I consider everyone a friend until they give me reason not to. But, sure, a modicum of common sense should be applied when making jokes or engaging in banter. Time and place is key. As is the attitude of the person you're talking to.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

I always considered France a friend

Yet they never call or write. Or invite you to parties, or let you fly your bombers over their airspace...

 

[iguana_tonante]

I always considered France a friend

Just wait until they serve you escargots.

To follow your analogy, it should be left to the French to do irony about themselves (as they, a lot). How many white comedians crack jokes about slavery all the time?

Which is exactly my point. The world is in a place now where everyone is afraid of their own shadow, and as such have created acceptable double standards for an easy life. If something is funny, it shouldn't change its connotation just because someone else is saying it. Again, the racists and hatemongers fuck it up for everyone else, and the PC brigade unwittingly back them up by forcing their version of acceptability on everyone else.

I understand your point, but I don't really see it in that way. It's not a matter of being scared, it's a matter of being polite. Politeness is the mineral oil we use to keep society's gears from gripping. It serves its purpose, and it's a fundamental one: without it, we would be at each other's throat every other day. Too often (and I don't mean it's your case, just a general thought), screaming "bloody PC" is just a way to justify being rude to other people, for malevolence or simply for laziness. I'm not one for ridiculously excessive sophistication, but in the long run I don't think it's a good idea to encourages bad manners.

I consider everyone a friend until they give me reason not to. But, sure, a modicum of common sense should be applied when making jokes or engaging in banter. Time and place is key. As is the attitude of the person you're talking to.

I'm surprised at your first statement, but it could be a cultural difference or just a semantic misunderstanding. I am always polite to people I meet, but I don't consider anyone a friend except when they give me reason to. A friend is someone I can trust implicitly. All the others are just, well, people.

For the rest, we are in general agreement.

 

[Servo]

I understand your point, but I don't really see it in that way. It's not a matter of being scared, it's a matter of being polite. Politeness is the mineral oil we use to keep society's gears from gripping. It serves its purpose, and it's a fundamental one: without it, we would be at each other's throat every other day.

Are you kidding? I don't know how it is in your part of the world, but socially, and multiculturally, we are at each others throats. Obviously, I don't mean on an individual basis, but on a large social scale, people don't trust each other. People force themselves apart because of it. That's why we have the Asian community, the White community, the Black community...etc. That shouldn't be the case, we should just be a community of fuckin Human Beings. I think Political Correctness, and the way it is forced into society is heavily responsible for the shitstorm the world is in today.

Too often (and I don't mean it's your case, just a general thought), screaming "bloody PC" is just a way to justify being rude to other people, for malevolence or simply for laziness.

Of course that happens. I've said a few times that the dickheads fuck it up for the rest of us. However, I'm not gonna change who I am out of fear of being seen as un-PC. I couldn't give a fuck. If I say something someone doesn't like, then I'll quite happily have a conversation about it with them, but I wont bow to ridiculously over-the-top forced sensibilities.

I'm surprised at your first statement, but it could be a cultural difference or just a semantic misunderstanding. I am always polite to people I meet, but I don't consider anyone a friend except when they give me reason to. A friend is someone I can trust implicitly. All the others are just, well, people.

I suppose "friend" could be viewed as a strong word, but I'd say "polite" isn't strong enough. I'm one of those people who will talk to anyone, so I tend to view it as more friendly, than polite. I have time for anyone, as long as you're not a dick.

 

[AJBryant]

Not just PC arseholes. As I said, racists and hatemongers fuck it up for the rest of us, too. But, yeah, PC arseholes are a big fuckin problem with the world right now, and are (IMO) a major contributing factor to rising social tensions. Not just in the UK, but everywhere.

I have long referred to a class of people I call "the professionally sensitive" -- the kind who take offense at things ON OTHER PEOPLE'S BEHALF. ("You can't say XYZ, you'll hurt the feelings of the ABC!")

 

[captcalhoun]

or Daily Mail readers as i call them.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Yes, they are, but what I'm talking about is an international version of ribbing your mates in jest. It's lighthearted, and the other party usually has a few digs back, but it's all in good fun.

Just like sports trash talk. Hell, I'm a bleacher creature, and at a typical Yankee game we spend hours going "Fuck Boston" and "Philly Sucks" and all that, but even that is in good fun. (So is what we do during the "Y.M.C.A." thing at the top of the seventh inning. I'll leave you all to find out exactly what.) It's what baseball fans do. Same thing here.