Same canon?

[F. King Daniel]

Re: i'm new...

The first planet we saw Kirk on during TOS was Delta Vega. It's likely that STXI Kirk had been to an extra-terrestrial world prior to his Delta Vega visit, too.

T'Pol said in an early Enterprise episode that Vulcan "sometimes" has a blue sky. IIRC, a few got upset about it back then as well .

Anyone remember how Vulcan in TMP bore zero resemblance to "Amok Time" and it ignored Spock's line about Vulcan having "no moons"? Classic Trek had flawless continuity too!

 

[I-Am-Zim]

Actually, the first planet we literally "saw" Kirk visit during TOS was M-113. The first episode aired was "The Man Trap". "WNMHGB" was actually the third aired, I think, although it was chronologically the first filmed episode featuring Kirk.

 

[Jeyl]

Re: i'm new...

Anyone remember how Vulcan in TMP bore zero resemblance to "Amok Time", and it ignored Spock's line about Vulcan having "no moons". Classic Trek had flawless continuity too!

If you ever watched any of the behind the scenes material for TMP, especailly with the matte artists, you will find that the matte painters did in fact have the classic desert Vulcan with orange skies. I'm going to see if I can find it here.

And it's funny how you bring up the word "remember", because I for one remember a particular Director's Edition of TMP that fixes the issue with Vulcan which was by far a superior product.

The first planet we saw Kirk on during TOS was Delta Vega.

Incorrect. The first planet we saw Kirk visit during TOS was M-113 from the episode "The Man Trap". He literally beams down to the planet in the first 30 seconds.

 

[F. King Daniel]

"Where No Man..." comes before "The Man Trap" on the DVD's, and in the Star Trek Chronology books.

I'll never understand the mentality of people who don't enjoy something until a few minor details are "fixed" by some sort of re-release (one 30 years later, in the case of TMP!) My point was that minutae like Vulcan's sky doesn't and shouldn't matter. It doesn't to the majority at all, and if it really bothered those making TMP then Vulcan would have had a red sky in that movie back in 1979, not when they're trying to leach money out of longtime fans in 2001.

A vaguely similar example: The Dark Knight's Gotham City bore zero reseblance to how it looked in Batman Begins. Yet despite this glaring continuity faliure, The Dark Knight made over a billion dollars.

 

[Broccoli]

A vaguely similar example: The Dark Knight's Gotham City bore zero reseblance to how it looked in Batman Begins. Yet despite this glaring continuity faliure, The Dark Knight made over a billion dollars.

That's because I bought all the DVDs and burnt them because of that continuity goof!!!!

 

[Jeyl]

My point was that minutae like Vulcan's sky doesn't and shouldn't matter. It doesn't to the majority at all, and if it really bothered those making TMP then Vulcan would have had a red sky in that movie back in 1979, not when they're trying to leach money out of longtime fans in 2001.

Vulcan's red sky is hardly a minute matter, because details like that is what seperates Vulcan from Earth. You know? Make it look ALIEN.

So if details that don't affect the plot bother you, would you mind if I changed Uhura into a caucasian blonde? If it doesn't affect the story or affect the characters, why should we care?

 

[DonIago]

Actually, as diversity is supposed to be one of Trek's guiding principles, making that sort of change could be considered major.

 

[Jeyl]

Actually, as diversity is supposed to be one of Trek's guiding principles, making that sort of change could be considered major.

What about diversity of planets!

 

[F. King Daniel]

It's already been done: An old 70's Star Trek Book and Record (comic with an LP of the story) featured a white, blone Uhura and a black, afro-wearing Sulu.

 

[Jeyl]

"Where No Man..." comes before "The Man Trap" on the DVD's,

Yes, but first you said

- "James Kirk's first alien world"

That wasn't true since he had visited many worlds before he even took command of the Enterprise, so you changed your statement by saying

- "The first planet we saw Kirk on during TOS was Delta Vega."

That also isn't true because the first planet we see Kirk on during TOS was Delta Vega, so once again you change your statement to

- "comes before "The Man Trap" on the DVD's"

Well, on a single DVD (Which has been looooong out of print for at least eight years) yes, but ever since the release of the season sets, "The Man Trap" always starts as the first episode on Disc One. Even the HD-DVDs and BluRay sets followed suit.

- and in the Star Trek Chronology books.
- It's already been done: An old 70's Star Trek Book and Record (comic with an LP of the story) featured a white, blone Uhura and a black, afro-wearing Sulu.

Don't forget that all Star Trek books are not canon. They don't count.

So, would you like to change your statement again?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I was admittedly a little vague with "Kirk's first alien world". "Kirk's first alien world in an episode we saw, in production order" is what a true anal Trekkie would have said.

As for the rest...

My Star Trek Collector's Edition DVD #1's contents is as follows:

01. Where No Man Has Gone Before
02. The Corbomite Maneuver
03. Mudd's Woman

"The Man Trap" is episode five on disc two.

Books and comics aren't canon, you're right. They are however approved by those in charge, who thought a white Uhura was acceptable. Perhaps some of that mentality that gave Vulcan moons in TMP, swapped lithium for dilithium, gave Klingons and then Romulans bumpy heads, changed the size of the Klingon bird of prey so it would look good next to the Enterprise-D...

But it's impossible to argue with someone who accepts only some retcons and not others, and will gloss-over only the continuity errors in episodes they like.

Trek's canon has been broken since James R. Kirk. Either gloss it all over or none of it.

 

[Gojira]

The Man Trap is on disk one of the remastered set.

 

[thumbtack]

Using the old universe as a reference point for how the new universe "should" be is totally and utterly irrational.

 

[Jeyl]

Using the old universe as a reference point for how the new universe "should" be is totally and utterly irrational.

Why?

 

[OneBuckFilms]

The TOS Box Sets, both Remastered and Original, have the episodes in Broadcast Order.

The individual DVDs that preceeded them had them in PRODUCTION order.

If you look at the numbers associated with the episodes on the DVDs/Blu-Rays, you'll find this number to the left of the episode name for each episode of the set.

This is the Broadcast episode number. Where No Ban Has Gone Before was the second pilot for the series, and yes, Delta Vega was the first planet Kirk encountered on screen.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Using the old universe as a reference point for how the new universe "should" be is totally and utterly irrational.

Why?

If it was established to have been created or happened before Stardate 2233.04, then it is Canon.

Earth and Vulcan both predate the divergence.

So, all of the planets, civilizations etc. still exist in the Alternate Reality.

There may, in some cases, be modified history, with events after 2233.04, but beyond that, it's the same.

 

[Jeyl]

There may, in some cases, be modified history, with events after 2233.04, but beyond that, it's the same.

Exactly. I highly doubt that the Doomsday Machine is going to turn around because Vulcan was destroyed. What about V'Ger? That big cloud is still on it's way!

 

[OneBuckFilms]

My point was that minutae like Vulcan's sky doesn't and shouldn't matter. It doesn't to the majority at all, and if it really bothered those making TMP then Vulcan would have had a red sky in that movie back in 1979, not when they're trying to leach money out of longtime fans in 2001.

Vulcan's red sky is hardly a minute matter, because details like that is what seperates Vulcan from Earth. You know? Make it look ALIEN.

So if details that don't affect the plot bother you, would you mind if I changed Uhura into a caucasian blonde? If it doesn't affect the story or affect the characters, why should we care?

It's not THAT major. It simply establishes that Vulcan likely has, like any life-supporting Class M realistically should, seasonal and/or weather changes that can change the color and appearance of the sky.

It's one of those things where yes, it's a little inconsistent, but for which a reasonable explanation can be made.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

There may, in some cases, be modified history, with events after 2233.04, but beyond that, it's the same.

Exactly. I highly doubt that the Doomsday Machine is going to turn around because Vulcan was destroyed. What about V'Ger? That big cloud is still on it's way!

Read the "Nero" comic for some posibilities there

 

[Jeyl]

There may, in some cases, be modified history, with events after 2233.04, but beyond that, it's the same.

Exactly. I highly doubt that the Doomsday Machine is going to turn around because Vulcan was destroyed. What about V'Ger? That big cloud is still on it's way!

Read the "Nero" comic for some posibilities there

Way ahead of you there. I jumped for joy when I saw the cloud make an appearance. I pretended hearing Nero's theme done in blaster beam.