5x012 The Pandorica Opens (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[Bones2]

Has anyone yet mentioned why all these enemies who think the Doctor's going to destroy the universe didn't just kill him? While he was standing on the rock shouting his "ooh, I'm hard I am" speech (and though I love Smith and Moffat, I wouldn't mind a series without one of those) at the ships, I rationalised at the time that they didn't fire some shots down and kill him there because it might block the entry to the Pandorica or damage it or something, being as we didn't know what it was at the time, only that it was important enough for them to want it. But rather than forcing him into the box, why wouldn't they just kill him? I'm guessing that'll be explained next episode, or maybe there's some worth in keeping the last Time Lord in a box or something.

This is just my reading of it, but if you've tried to destroy someone as many times as the Alliance members tried to destroy the Doctor, but he keeps coming back, you might be a little reluctant to actually kill him until you can be sure he won't come back - hence trapping him.

Well, the Daleks know Time Lords and how they die. They're not so stupid they don't know a good shooting wouldn't finish him off. As I say, I'm guessing there'll be more of an explanation to come.

 

[Frodo Lives]

Yeah! And they should shoot James Bond too!

 

[Shazam!]

Why does the poll say 'Grade The Lodger'?

 

[Eyes]

Brilliant episode. I loved the little bits tying into the plot from every other episode except Amy's Choice.

Still no idea what the final villain is going to be, but it was nice seeing all the other villains coming together in an alliance.

And finally, we had a final where the main villain wasn't the Daleks (apart from Series 3 obviously). It was nice to have them show up for a cameo and give us a better angle on them.

The bit with Rory and the Romans was exceptionally well done. I love Autons and the way they can disguise themselves like that.

I really can't wait for next week.

 

[Captain Pike]

I hate having to grade the first part of multi parters, so I won't - I am going to call this tentatively 'good', but I'll reserve full judgement and polling rights until next week. If that delivers, then I expect that will elevate this weeks to brilliant status. However, if the Moff pulls a Russell Tea Lady this could have the opposite effect..

ETA -

Starkers wrote: Loved River in this, Alex Kingston really is channelling Jacqui Pearce and obviously loving it...and I have to say I love the cat burglar outfit!

I never thought of that but you are right. She'd be make a pretty decent Servalan if the proposed Blake's 7 reboot ever happens..

 

[EyalM]

Very good. One nitpick, though: If Rory is an Auton, and the Autons based him and the rest of the Romans on the stuff they found in Amy's house, how can he (Auton-Rory) have real-Rory's memories up until the moment of this death?

 

[Bones2]

However, if the Moff pulls a Russell Tea Lady this could have the opposite effect..

 

[Cutter John]

And now that its turned around and bit him on the bum, lets hope thats the last we see of the Doctors "Boo! Its me the Doctor. Run away now before I do something nasty to you." schtick.

Well, the Daleks know Time Lords and how they die. They're not so stupid they don't know a good shooting wouldn't finish him off. As I say, I'm guessing there'll be more of an explanation to come.

The Doc's got this almost supernatural ability to escape certain death that they wanted to physically grab him, stuff him in a box and triple lock the door just to be sure.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Has anyone yet mentioned why all these enemies who think the Doctor's going to destroy the universe didn't just kill him? While he was standing on the rock shouting his "ooh, I'm hard I am" speech (and though I love Smith and Moffat, I wouldn't mind a series without one of those) at the ships, I rationalised at the time that they didn't fire some shots down and kill him there because it might block the entry to the Pandorica or damage it or something, being as we didn't know what it was at the time, only that it was important enough for them to want it. But rather than forcing him into the box, why wouldn't they just kill him? I'm guessing that'll be explained next episode, or maybe there's some worth in keeping the last Time Lord in a box or something.

I agree about those speeches, they sometimes remind me of those old Chuck Norris Facts. Maybe it backfired this time, convincing his enemies what a big shot he is.

I wonder if they were trying to avoid the universe correcting itself in the same way Adelaide was always going to die, for example. Maybe they thought if they killed the Doctor it would somehow destroy them since the Doctor was fated to destroy the universe. If they could instead contain him indefinitely they could keep the prophecy forever in a holding pattern.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

And now that its turned around and bit him on the bum, lets hope thats the last we see of the Doctors "Boo! Its me the Doctor. Run away now before I do something nasty to you." schtick.

I can assure you that it's not the last time we see that kind of thing. When your action hero doesn't carry a weapon, doesn't have flashy superpowers and doesn't believe in violence, there aren't thousands of possible ways to make us believe he's a badass.

 

[Captain Pike]

Well, the doctor of old was never really an 'action hero'. Pertwee, maybe a bit, but on the whole, not so much...

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Well, the doctor of old was never really an 'action hero'. Pertwee, maybe a bit, but on the whole, not so much...

Well that was then, this is now. Obviously I wasn't talking about the 1960's.

 

[DWF]

Well, the doctor of old was never really an 'action hero'. Pertwee, maybe a bit, but on the whole, not so much...

I'd certainly call Jon Pertwee and action Doctor, he was always doing fight scenes and chase scene, even though he was in his early 50s.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

When your action hero doesn't carry a weapon, doesn't have flashy superpowers and doesn't believe in violence, there aren't thousands of possible ways to make us believe he's a badass.

Maybe those things would suggest they don't need to convince us.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

When your action hero doesn't carry a weapon, doesn't have flashy superpowers and doesn't believe in violence, there aren't thousands of possible ways to make us believe he's a badass.

Maybe those things would suggest they don't need to convince us.

Of course they do. The show, like any other show, has to be emotionally engaging. It's entertainment, not a thesis. You can't just skip the character bits.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

When your action hero doesn't carry a weapon, doesn't have flashy superpowers and doesn't believe in violence, there aren't thousands of possible ways to make us believe he's a badass.

Maybe those things would suggest they don't need to convince us.

Of course they do. The show, like any other show, has to be emotionally engaging. It's entertainment, not a thesis. You can't just skip the character bits.

I'm saying those very character bits are why they don't need to convince us he's a badass, we already know he's awesome. Show don't tell.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I'm saying those very character bits are why they don't need to convince us he's a badass, we already know he's awesome. Show don't tell.

This is absurd. The Doctor can talk his way out of any situation. That's what he does, that's his thing. How do you suggest to show that if he doesn't actually talk? Telling is showing, in this situation. Those speeches are to the Doctor what martial arts are to Bruce Lee movies.

 

[Cyke101]

Has anyone yet mentioned why all these enemies who think the Doctor's going to destroy the universe didn't just kill him? While he was standing on the rock shouting his "ooh, I'm hard I am" speech (and though I love Smith and Moffat, I wouldn't mind a series without one of those) at the ships, I rationalised at the time that they didn't fire some shots down and kill him there because it might block the entry to the Pandorica or damage it or something, being as we didn't know what it was at the time, only that it was important enough for them to want it. But rather than forcing him into the box, why wouldn't they just kill him? I'm guessing that'll be explained next episode, or maybe there's some worth in keeping the last Time Lord in a box or something.

I wondered that, too (I mean, might as well take out the whole planet while you're at it -- half those races have tried for one reason or another), so I'm guessing that they need the Doctor for something just yet.

Was there a reference yet to Amy's Choice? I get the feeling that the one behind it all is ...that guy.

Nah, the Doctor chucked the seeds out the door.

Maybe he missed one behind the faucet tap? (yes, yes, that's a stretch)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I wonder if they were trying to avoid the universe correcting itself in the same way Adelaide was always going to die, for example. Maybe they thought if they killed the Doctor it would somehow destroy them since the Doctor was fated to destroy the universe. If they could instead contain him indefinitely they could keep the prophecy forever in a holding pattern.

I think the alliance is going for something bigger.

The White Dalek says the Doctor will be "prevented" full stop. Not that the Doctor will be "prevented from destroying the universe." He will be "prevented."

The Pandorica is probably a little bit Dalek Void Ship (from "Army of Ghosts"), a little bit time-space crack -- it "unhappens" the Doctor. Thus the Doctor is "prevented," full stop, not just from destroying the universe but from doing anything ever. It will be as though the Doctor never existed. And even though the powers of the Alliance would be aware of just what effect the Doctor had had upon history, they would also be aware that they would be better off, from their perspective, in a universe without the Doctor's meddling.

Otherwise, why wouldn't they have just killed the Doctor?

"The Big Bang," then, would likely take place in "a cosmos without the Doctor," as the Master so poetically puts it in "The Five Doctors."

And I suspect we'll end up, at the end, in a universe that is similar to the Doctor Who universe we've known since 1963, but not exact, much as J.J. Abrams' Star Trek takes place in a universe roughly the same, but not exact, as everything that had gone before. The Pandorica is the Doctor's Nero.

 

[Meredith]

Could be a way of dealing with the "Everyone Knows the Doctor and his Awesome/BadAssedness" syndrome that affects the nuWho. Now when he meets the next baddie he will be unknow and no one will know him. Though if they un-make the Doctor, will it restore Gallifrey?